something i've noticed about all these custom maps

[JacobEsterque]

it doesn't seem like people are taking full advantage of the features this engine can do.  i don't see any REAL big maps or maps wih strangely placed gravity defying whatever's

mad props for pompey his world: moonfrag

[pompey]

yay for me! :)

ratboys Hybrid map has got grav effects, makes me feel ill!

edit: as in ratboys dm is really good (in case that wasnt clear).

(Edited by pompey at 7:08 pm on Oct. 2, 2001)

[Iirion Claus]

Two of my maps (Memories of Duum and Dementia) use weird gravity effects; if you're in for a headache, try playing Dementia for more than twenty minutes or so :)

Doing big maps require a lot of time and effort from the mapper, and when someone starts working on such a project he usually leaves it after several days because of lack of interest or time. Doing a map as large and complex as Croteam's requires a LOT of patience and planning; don't forget that Croteam's mappers got paid for it, while the standard fan mapper isn't.

There are several promising mods, however, that should have big maps... Let's hope they'll be released soon :)

[addman]

true irion, i always start a big mapping project, but never have a chance to finish it because i have a better idea a fortnight later and start a new map
i really should finish off the last map i was making

[GeeBee20]

Yeah... and the (too) few people making large Sam maps (read sp maps) have gone without a trace! (Trisk, Forager and Boxcarwillie)...

I too am suffering from the urge to dump my maps after a few hours of work 2-5, but I'm getting better and while working on my 2nd sp map I have realised that I have much fewer areas in my map that I feel a little uneasy with compared to ff1... It take that as a good sign... I think the only reason why I've gotten into this habit of actually releasing some of my maps is the incredible speed at which I can work in SE... Only wish that I didn't have all these time restrictions in my mapping work. I have 2 jobs at the moment which means that most of the time I'll have to stop editing even though I'm in the blessed speed mapping mode... really pisses me off...!

As a side note I really think it's too bad that there are so few sp mappers... I've propably said this a million times before, but the editor rocks! When I think of all the zillions of Quake and unreal maps that are coming out all the time I can't help but feel a little frustrated that there are so few active Sam mappers. My own guess is that it's simpy because of the theme of Sam... I think that something around 80% of the gamers I know simply refuses to play/try Sam alone because of the bright/humourous/arcade feel that IS Sam... damn!

Does anyone here know of any gamedevelopers who are using the serious engine?

[pompey]

the problem is u need to know a lot more about the engine to make sp maps. ive done a few dms now, and only now do i feel like i can make a good attempt at a sp. i think most of the time u want to start a new map cos u know the one ur working on isnt as good as it could be.

btw, forager is still around, mostly in the modelling forum, and boxcar willie was posting a coulpe of weeks ago working on a map!

[RiZlA]

I agree with pompay on this one Sp are alot harder to do than DM maps so they take up more time. I have created a few Dms but as for SP well i have been working on for a while now but still have lots more to lern before i can do a good sp map + i think my Dms suck big style lol....

If your so bothered about playing sp maps and think there isnt enough out there stop groning and make your own. Rember SS ED comes with the the game ... And we can always do with mappers for SS cos there a few good mappers out there but we need more !!!!!

[HighMaintenance]

So what is the stumbling block for single player
maps you guys are running into?

I need to start working on mine as soon as I
finish learning models. Anything I should know
about?

Thanks

[pompey]

the stumbling block for me is that i am still learning the best ways to do certain things with the editor. To do a big map means investing a lot of time, and im not prepared to do so if i think that in a weeks time i might want to start all over again, cos i will have learnt something new, or a better way to do something.
Happily, im fairly confident that i now know what im doing, so will get to work.
So what do you need to know about? well anything u havent already done, or am puzzled by, or things that are gonna be an issue for big single player maps. For me I had to learn decent sectoring skills and ways of keeping the fps up, for u it could be something else. Maybe a good way of telling is when u read threads in the forums, are u able to help other people, if u can this prob means ur fairly advanced, tho there are always improvements to be made and new areas to learn.
phew, that was longer than i thought it was gonna be.

[Ian Partridge]

GeeBee20 about ur question about other ppl using the serious engine yes there is thier making a duke nukem game with it

[Jwh]

One reason we don't have so many mappers is that this is the first game of a series - and an engine. Quake mapping has been around since 1996 when the first bsp hacking tools were released, and slowly therafter map editors came into being - this has continued through Q2, Q3, Half-Life, and various other lesser licenses. Same thing with the Unreal engine, only that came with an editor to start with like Sam - there's been Unreal, mission packs, UT, and licenses. I estimate a year and a half or so since Sam's original release to have a really strong, frequently-releasing editing community. Also, excellent mods(or one really popular one, at least) are a great boost as Half-Life has proved.

Besides not having the people, we are also all learning. This thing is so powerful that I still feel like I've only touched the surface of it. We could make DMs on floating platforms that rotate AROUND MINATURE PLANETS, set them to very high speeds, and even make the planet rotate around a sun AT THE SAME TIME!! It's pretty crazy but we can do it. Once we're all comfortable enough with the tools, we may see more innovative maps like what I described. As of right now we're all still experimenting or mapping the "usual" way.

[RiZlA]

Stubling block i have come across .... good question !

I dont think there is stubling blocks but there is lots to lern and the only two ways of lerning is buy trying it first then but asking questions.

The best place to ask the questions are in here or in the SS Mirc.

Best way to lern this is my oppion ...

1)jump in with both feet
2)start makeing a simple map to lern the baseics
3)find some tutorals and read them
4)dont be afraid of messing up
5)dont take crisisum personaly

Thats all i can think off
I wish there was a book you could buy that had all the answers but there isnt and thats a shame.

[Iirion Claus]

(Shameless plug)
I wrote a nice little guide to help single player makers. You can find it here:

http://www.3dactionplanet.com/serioussam/guides/mappingguide.shtml
(/shameless plug)

[The friendly newbie]

Well actually, I'm glad this topic appeared. I noticed the same thing. Once I skipped engines again ... I couldn't wait to take full advantage of it ... and after learning the editor wich took me a while I must admit (sectoring/mipping is quite new to me) ... I'm still not fully using it I guesss, but I think I know why not many maps are using the full advantages. Mapping is actually quite easy, and the editor ... I think nobody can say it isn't easy to learn. ... so we're getting a lot of (and I couldn't figure out a way around this word) newbies experimenting. Don't get me wrong though, I like the idea of fresh new minds for it, but you need to have a sense of structure to make a goodlooking map, and that's where they're still learning, and from what I allready saw advancing fast. But like pompey said "To do a big map means investing a lot of time"
Most don't see how they will ever come to the end of it and give up, instead try something easyer and keep advancing pretty slow. ... there should be a thread for a "3 week"-map competition in the showcase forums instead of 2 hours, ... I'm sure you'll see much better stuff come out of it, and even if you don't, most participants will have learned a lot. Most people forget Rome wasn't build in a day. A great map made in 2 hours will be forgotten just as fast. ... But an incredible map made over 3 weeks that has every detail taken care of ... I'm pretty sure you won't forget that one in 3 weeks.
Also ... maybe a downside ... most people who just made a map like that, don't like their own map ... they've spend weeks and weeks building it, testing it, changing it ... and when they're done, ... it's gotten boring ... that's another reason why many maps that take a while get thrown away after a week or so.
... anyway, that's my 2 cents ;) ... I might start a thread for a 3 week mapping competition ... but if I do it'll be tomorrow, ... gotta get some rest now ;)

[DiEgo]

i would try to make a huge map, but i cant ever find the time. school, work, homework, eat, then i have about 15 minutes. thats not long enough to do any serious editing. still, i do have a map that i hack out when i get some time. but dont expect it for a long time. well, thats life.

[viper45]

I hate to say it, but BoxCarWillie is gone, he didnt just post a couple weeks ago, he posted months ago, look what I found in his profile:

Last posted in Return To Moon Mountains 1 on July 25, 2001

(Edited by Viper45 at 7:11 pm on Oct. 3, 2001)

[LeChuck]

What happened to him?  He was one of the better mappers here.  He was also supposed to make a series of maps.  Maybe someone can email him.

[LSD]

I think that  a really good professional quality SP map takes at least three weeks of 9 to 5 work... for those of us who work, that is not feasible

[Jedi Outcast]

See you guys... You need to be spending like months on maps... When you dedicate that much time, then maps are really good.

[Michael Harris]

Forager is still active.  Note his posts here.  More importantly, note his recent major FrameWarp single player release.  And his ongoing mastering and sharing of info as he tackles new stuff that most haven't got to.....in-game cinematics, smart prefabs, texturing/uvmapping, modeling, .......

Unfortunately, time spent in the forums or on IRC is time not spent modeling.  Trying to balance between these things gets tough.

And I suspect that some folks have broadened their efforts to include modeling.....which is a discipline as much or more demanding than mapping......and then there's the specialities of skinning and uv mapping.....and of course of custom coding with the SDK..........

Me.....I'm plugging along on the next revision of the Serious Editor: Item-by-Item help/document......."when it's done".  (Current, now somewhat dated, version is available on STP site (see link on this site's main page).)  Tremendous amount of features and info to cover, even superficially, let alone attempt to synthesize out into any sort of an in-depth treatment.

We still haven't really explored and seen more than the tip of the iceberg....and we've already got a new game and more features heading our way yet this year.

I suspect that a number of folks are out there plugging away on impressive stuff that we'll be seeing over the next few months.

Meanwhile.....to anyone currently dissatisfied........what are you contributing?   ;)     Plenty of opportunity to develop expertise, make a contribution, become a name in the community, draw the attention of game company recruiters.......   Jump in.  It is open to all.

[pompey]

3 weeks u reckon LSD, ive got a new job starting in two weeks, so i probably have 2 weeks to work fairly hard on my map, I do have other things to do mind, so well see how far i get in this time. The danger is once the two weeks are up i wont have time to map as effectively, but we'll see.

and MH ur right about people moving on to incorporate models and their own textures etc. when i first used sam editor I just used the mapping forum, then after a while tried some modelling and used the modeling forum, Ive noticed that new people to the community apear first in the mapping then 3-4 weeks later post things in modelling.

[p0gie]

I started on a big map after I released Lava Warrens back in May.   It does take a lot of time, commitment and patience and I would say I'm about 75% done with it.

The problem tends to be finding time around real life.  You sometimes have to let a project sit for 3 weeks before going back to it.

It will be released though........ too much work has gone in to abandon it. :)

[The friendly newbie]

Well, ... I see that I've created some confusion, .. ;)
the only thing I meant by 3 weeks is don't aim low if you've got something great in mind. ... I personally have been working much slower once school started again ... in fact I haven't finished an SS(T) map yet, ... but aim high :)

[GaryP]

I've been working on City Of Gold now for 2 months.



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Copiers telefrag the player. I've no idea why this happens, but if Sam happens to stand on a Copier which spawns, he'll gib. Solution? Place your Copier in the air. That way the item will spawn and fall down on Sam, instead of changing his inner organs to outer organs.
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WOW!  What a nice trap!!!  I'm thinking of using it.

[NoMercy Rider]

Not only do people not have the time to make huge maps, but the size of the map when it is finished could be horrendous. I don't know many people that are anxious to download a 25.0 MB map because it is large. I think the community looks for (in sp maps essentialy) a fast paced level, with lots of action, and yet a small package to download :).

[SuperMang!]

mine so far is 31.3 MB.

looks like i'll have to go trim the fat...

[LSD]

HAHHAAHAHAHHAHAA. I shall go mad. Clearly my boss doesnt agree with my time estimate....

[pompey]

ill prob make mine downloadable a level at a time, that should help people!

[mr luc]

Well, speaking as a former Thief and Thief 2 mapper, when we made Fan Missions, often they would take us well over 6 months to make, and some took as long as a year. Just because of the level of detail that making a Thief map requires. (Things like book you can read, candles you can shoot out, secrets, detailed little hallways, and most importantly of all, 100% believable architecture). So 3 weeks of 9 to 5 work is really pretty easy for an SP map. :)

[mattomondo]

If you want a map with cool gravity effects check out Tower of Defiance!  Doesn't make you all that dizzy and very fun to have 3d battles.

[GaryP]

I may cut out a few scenes out of mine and put them into the Sequel.  Just to get it out.

I've been playing with modeling so much that I have not had time for my map.

[Guilmon]

we'll just see what you think when i upload my spacestation somewhere!

nuh nuh nuh nuh nuuuhhh nuh!:tongue: