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Old 03-26-2016, 07:56 PM   #73   Add To Ignore List  
Lava Golem
 
Joined: Apr 2003
 
jasser is offline
Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

Oh, I so saw this coming when this thread was made. Some arguing for making the game more friendly towards new players and a self-proclaimed "pro" arguing about how it will ruin everything.

Yes, timing matters. However, timing is a hell of a lot more than spawn timers of items. As I said in my earlier post, fixed spawn timers usually only serve to make the difference between stronger and weaker players even bigger, resulting in pummeling.

As for Gedamial's example of him pummeling his friend, I think it serves more of an example of how poor a game mechanic it actually is to have fixed timers, than how "competitive" it is. A minor difference in skill, which would usually result in a difficult to predict outcome of the match, is amplified way out of proportion, making one player dominant. And in fact, two players of equal skill would run into the same issue - the first one that lucked out with the armor could literally dominate the entire match as a result by continually getting an endurance boost relative to his opponent.

I'd say that any game design where the first 30 seconds of a match decide the outcome in the vast majority of matches is unfit for purpose.

As MEA said, you can make a game a lot more competitive by exposing the game changing factors to everyone (such as spawn time of power ups). However, a lot of it is also up to the map design. Strong weapons and power ups should always be placed in or near areas of high traffic and therefore high risk.

I've played every game mode in Quake and UT with everything from the most casual players to semi-professional players. And even when you take out all the things that "pro" players are so fond of to show their dominance of others (e.g. spawn timers, power ups, weapon difference, etc.), the better players still end up on top. They end up on top because they understand the weapons, the maps and their opponents. They know what weapons to use in which situations and how to use them for both offense and defense, they know how to move through the maps and they are good at predicting the movement, strategy and actions of their opponents.

None of these things have ANYTHING to do with spawn timers, denial of power-ups and weapons or anything like it. However, by removing all those factors that serve to amplify the skill difference, you get down to the core of the actual fighting skills of players. When everyone is on equal footing, without game mechanics that put one player or team in completely control of the match, you get a much more unpredictable outcome - and thus a game that's more fun to play and watch.

I don't understand the whining about the serious damage either. It's supposed to be a power strike and a game changer. It's supposed to blow you the hell away - why on earth would you nerf it? It makes not sense for a FFA DM match to nerf it. If you truly want "competitive" play, then it's not FFA (it's either 1v1 or TDM) and there should simply be an option to turn off power-ups and that could be voluntarily applied by those seeking a tournament style competitive environment.

And for that matter, 1v1 and TDM (or any other team based modes, e.g. CTF) are two very different things. You'd find it very hard to have the exact same gameplay mechanics in both and still have both be suitable for competitive play. 1v1s in FPS games have always been almost exclusively about "exhausting" your opponent by area-control and item-denial. Team based modes on the other hand have mostly been focused on other areas of gameplay. There's a reason why you don't see a lot of 1v1 FPS competitions in eSports - they're simply not fun to watch and too often end up being completely predictable after the first kill. They do, however, still exist at events because the participating players keep demanding them.
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