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Serious Sam 4 The place to talk about Croteam's next title: Serious Sam 4! What do you know? What do you hope to see in the next Sam game?

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Old 03-27-2016, 06:27 PM   #91   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

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Originally Posted by jasser View Post
I think the main question that really needs to be answered is what SS versus should be. Should it just be pure 1v1 and FFA DM? Or should it be something more varied and include team modes like TDM and CTF?
And perhaps keep in mind that the more game modes exist, the less time there is to work on each of them - i.e. quality of each game mode will likely suffer.
Not that it's our decision to make, but I do want to hear what you all think SS versus should be. Now that we opened that can of worms .
Pretty much the same modes that have already been introduced in SSHD and in BFE.
They are enough for me. But that's just my opinion.

Again, the main problem is in the gameplay and game design not the game modes.
A game leacking those two things, won't be better with even a billion of different game modes.

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Old 03-27-2016, 07:19 PM   #92   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

Just to note, that the already existing game modes won't go away.

I'd personally add a few more, Domination/Control Zones for one, with also a version of them with a single zone, which could be King of the Hill. Will probably ask about those to be implemented (well technically speaking, it really only needs a "Score Generator Entity" to be added, which is probably not that hard to do; I think it could be done even via scripts).
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Old 03-27-2016, 07:22 PM   #93   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

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Originally Posted by Solais View Post
Just to note, that the already existing game modes won't go away.

I'd personally add a few more, Domination/Control Zones for one, with also a version of them with a single zone, which could be King of the Hill. Will probably ask about those to be implemented (well technically speaking, it really only needs a "Score Generator Entity" to be added, which is probably not that hard to do; I think it could be done even via scripts).
Try to keep the gameplay the same for all of the game modes.
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Old 03-27-2016, 07:35 PM   #94   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

It literally can't be different without a rewrite of the gamemode system that separates Campaign/Survival and Versus "main modes".

The thing about gamemodes is that there could be a lot of them added without that much of work. Design-wise, most versus levels fit all the modes, while only CTF and similar derivatives needing specific levels for them.
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Old 03-27-2016, 07:39 PM   #95   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

I honestly don't care which gamemodes ship AS LONG AS Deathmatch and Team Deathmatch are there. They are essentials. I don't care what anyone says. XP Sometimes I just want to shoot others in the face without fancy objectives in the way. Also, DM and TDM are the most versatile gamemodes for mods and maps, hands down, due to their pure simplicity. And besides, why not have them anyway? They're super easy to put in as far as gamemodes go.
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Old 03-27-2016, 07:51 PM   #96   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

ANOTHER TIP I FORGOT TO MENTION!


When you spectate a match there are two possibilities: you either spectate by watching a player's view or by fixing your view to static cameras all around the map.

It would be a nice feature to have a dynamic camera for spectators to fly around the map.

Just like in the Serious Editor, the Fly Mode when you press ESC
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Old 03-27-2016, 08:06 PM   #97   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

Ah yes, that is absolutely needed. They should follow CS's example in this regard.
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Old 03-27-2016, 09:04 PM   #98   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solais View Post
It literally can't be different without a rewrite of the gamemode system that separates Campaign/Survival and Versus "main modes".

The thing about gamemodes is that there could be a lot of them added without that much of work. Design-wise, most versus levels fit all the modes, while only CTF and similar derivatives needing specific levels for them.
I think he means that by putting scripts in a level you're creating the possibility of inconsistency (like on survival levels for example, some levels have scripted "waves" with the text actually showing and others don't), doing it via actual game code instead of scripts avoids level designers going inconsistent as well as future UGC makers doing terribly shitty inconsistent maps
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Old 03-28-2016, 03:53 AM   #99   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

Let's give some percentages of what people play on the Competitive Versus of SS HD TSE:

Deathmatch: at least 75%
Duel: 20% always
Team Deathmatch: 5% +-3% depending on the period
Capture the Flag: something like 0%
Other modes: What, are there other gamemodes?


I know guys that numbers are so important (so you can write 10 or more gamemodes on the description of the game) but you have to make these gamemodes appetizing for people, working expecially on map design.

Deathmatch will always be the most played gamemode (and duel the 2nd one, if the game is balanced and competitive), but a pure 0% on other gamemodes is so significative.
If you wanna make a great Versus just look how I designed some maps in my mods for SSHD TSE, or watch how so many people created new maps on the workshop.
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Old 03-28-2016, 08:43 AM   #100   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

Joe, you're right, but you're talking about right now. If you were around back when HD was just released, you'd know that the versus scene was so much more vibrant and diverse as it was after it became free..
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Old 03-28-2016, 08:51 AM   #101   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

In general, SSHD versus going free was a bad move, on various fronts. Game-wise, it was pretty much the downfall of the Versus community. Technology-wise, it caused the gametitle itself to bug out within Steam, showing wrong stats, people buying the full game, and only getting the demo, all sorts of technical problems. Will never happen again.
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Old 03-28-2016, 08:55 AM   #102   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

Making it free made me download it, play it, and having fun. Thanks tot he fact it was free I discovered a new world. The world of Serious Sam and the Croteam.

Now I bought almost all Serious Sam titles, thanks to the fact it was free and I was able to try it.
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Old 03-28-2016, 12:34 PM   #103   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

Quote:
Joe, you're right, but you're talking about right now. If you were around back when HD was just released, you'd know that the versus scene was so much more vibrant and diverse as it was after it became free..

It's been 5 years since I played that game the first time, and I know the competitive scene very well.
Really, people only wanted to play DMs and own every opponent in 1on1, have a look at the incredible amout of Clans, Top 10s, Top 20s that have appeared across the years.

I'm sure Serious Sam 4 Versus gameplay will be very good, if you keep the original SSHD or Sam Classic movement capabilities and simultaneously provide a good weapon balancement and appropriate map design.

I'm sure most of good versus players would give you a hand willingly and for free if you only ask them for balancement and ideas.
Take a look at Unreal Tournament 4... Made by community, and still the greatest Arena shooter ever made.

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Old 03-28-2016, 12:41 PM   #104   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

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Originally Posted by Joe Flamingo View Post
I'm sure most of good versus players would give you a hand willingly and for free if you only ask them for balancement and ideas.
Take a look at Unreal Tournament 4... Made by community, and still the greatest Arena shooter ever made.
This thread already provides a massive ammount of tips, ideas and bug reporting.

It's only up to Croteam to decide whether to follow our tips and thus make a good Versus mode, or a sucking one.
With the only difference that the latter decision will produce the same results as happened to the BFE Versus:

http://i.imgur.com/21I7Tjc.jpg
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Old 03-28-2016, 03:36 PM   #105   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

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Originally Posted by gedamial View Post
Again, the main problem is in the gameplay and game design not the game modes.
A game leacking those two things, won't be better with even a billion of different game modes.
The two are tied to each other. The game mechanics, the modes and the maps are 3 pieces of the same puzzle. They all influence each other and you can not separate them. Hence, my original question of which game modes should be in the game. And the more of game modes there are, the more difficult it is to make all 3 aspects (mechanics, modes and maps) come together to form a strong versus experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solais View Post
Just to note, that the already existing game modes won't go away.

I'd personally add a few more, Domination/Control Zones for one, with also a version of them with a single zone, which could be King of the Hill. Will probably ask about those to be implemented (well technically speaking, it really only needs a "Score Generator Entity" to be added, which is probably not that hard to do; I think it could be done even via scripts).
While Domination is always fun to play, classic King of the Hill (or Last Man Standing) is a camp party. If you want something King of the Hill inspired, I'd say something akin to the TAM mod in UT is a better option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solais View Post
Design-wise, most versus levels fit all the modes
I disagree. While duels, DM and TDM can be played on the same maps, it's very rare that a map fits all 3. They have different dynamics and the maps should be designed with those in mind.
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Old 03-28-2016, 05:37 PM   #106   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solais View Post
In general, SSHD versus going free was a bad move, on various fronts. Game-wise, it was pretty much the downfall of the Versus community. Technology-wise, it caused the gametitle itself to bug out within Steam, showing wrong stats, people buying the full game, and only getting the demo, all sorts of technical problems. Will never happen again.
Besides the obvious technical issues, why did it cause the Versus community downfall? That doesn't make very much sense...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Flamingo View Post
Unreal Tournament 4... Made by community, and still the greatest Arena shooter ever made.
UT4 has a massive load of potential and they're heading in a really good direction... HOWEVER, it's not really in a fun playable state just yet since, you know, pre-alpha. The weapon balance at the very least needs to be worked out before it's in a decent playable condition, in my arrogant opinion.
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Old 03-28-2016, 05:52 PM   #107   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

SSHD multiplayer led to the influx of Italian players who have drove away every other player, by always kicking them from the servers for not speaking Italian. Steam was so full of complaints then, and it only died down because everyone, but the Italians left.
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Old 03-28-2016, 06:02 PM   #108   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

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SSHD multiplayer led to the influx of Italian players who have drove away every other player, by always kicking them from the servers for not speaking Italian. Steam was so full of complaints then, and it only died down because everyone, but the Italians left.
Since I play every single day the Versus I know that kind of behavior.

Let me first say actually in the community there aren't just Italian people, but also polish, german and russian players.

You can not put everyone into the same basket. There are several (unjustified) reasons people get kicked from the servers:
  • They've been fragged, so they kick for rage
  • Two players want to duel in a server, but there are other players joining the match who don't allow them to start -> kick
  • Flood in the chatbox
  • The player at the top of the scoreboard is owning the players
  • People kicked after spamming or abusing of the any kind of weapon

The red-highlighted reason is due to the absence of enough dedicated servers in the game.

Actually I have good contacts with the Administrators of all the dedicated servers currently running in the game, so I always report this abuses to them and actions are taken.

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Old 03-28-2016, 06:59 PM   #109   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

They can have their own dedicated servers for dueling. Or, not have any at all, and just do it privately.
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Old 03-28-2016, 07:00 PM   #110   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

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Originally Posted by Solais View Post
They can have their own dedicated servers for dueling. Or, not have any at all, and just do it privately.
Starting a server privately means peer-to-peer connection... which means lag unless one of the two has a good internet connection.
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Old 03-28-2016, 08:23 PM   #111   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

That's like telling people to make their own Serious Sam forums because we ban them here for not speaking English. The reason people left SSHD VS is probably because they don't see it as worth having time and money invested in it. I bet there still wouldn't be much dedicated servers even if the Italians never made them in the first place.

Besides, it's not as if the Italians made the dedicated servers just to ruin the playerbase; rather, it's because they're the only ones liking SSHD enough to do that.
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Old 03-29-2016, 01:39 AM   #112   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

I wonder about that, considering the amounts of complaints from regulars back in the day when the Italians took over.
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Old 03-29-2016, 03:02 AM   #113   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

I always wondered how those italian players flooded the game?
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Old 03-29-2016, 03:17 AM   #114   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

Don't digress, italians are not the point of this topic.

Polish and russian people complains too, and they are right at the same way.

Just follow advices from competent versus players and you will make a great game.
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Old 03-29-2016, 03:39 AM   #115   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

This is a fun read.
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Old 03-29-2016, 07:06 AM   #116   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

As Pika said, don't go Off Topic.

Italians sometimes kick, but they're not the only one. And as I already said, as long as I see such behavior, it is punished.

But the Votation System needs more attention, anyway.

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This is a fun read.
As fun as people who don't care anything about the thread but they still comment 'cause they have nothing else to do.
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Old 03-29-2016, 07:20 AM   #117   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

The hostility and controlling attitude is what makes it so fun!
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Old 03-29-2016, 07:22 AM   #118   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

Perhaps by default you shouldn't be allowed to vote kick people. And the server by default will kick idle players.
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Old 03-29-2016, 07:24 AM   #119   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

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Perhaps by default you shouldn't be allowed to vote kick people. And the server by default will kick idle players.
That's the point.

People should be able to change map, change game mode... but not to kick.

Servers should kick by default idle players and chatbox abuses.
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Old 03-29-2016, 07:25 AM   #120   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Message for Croteam: The ideal Multiplayer for Serious Sam 4

Nah.. people just need to stop being so butthurt!
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