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Serious Sam 4 The place to talk about Croteam's next title: Serious Sam 4! What do you know? What do you hope to see in the next Sam game?

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Old 04-24-2016, 03:10 PM   #31   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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Originally Posted by Dave3d View Post
But, what is REALLY needed is MIXED enemies attacking you, not just 1 type at a time/location.
We need like at least 3 types of enemies attacking, maybe just 1 for 20 seconds, then add another WITH the first for a bit, then add a 3rd enemy while having the first 2 coming at you.

IMO this was one of the big failures of SS3.
That is one of the reasons I said SS needs a good, strong flying enemy, so they can mix more enemies on different levels and add more verticality to the game in the process.
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Old 04-24-2016, 04:41 PM   #32   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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Originally Posted by Serious Sam(BG) View Post
No, we have "UUUUUGE" problem with hitscan! It's sooooo unfair there are hitscan enemies... Only the player must be allowed to own hitscan weapons. Because we are getting old and can't deal with such enemies anymore. And make the projectiles slower. And with less damage. And the enemies - with slower firerate. And so on, and so on...
Enemies with hitscan in BFE are annoying because, maybe besides the soldiers, Every hitscan enemy had PERFECT aim. NO way to dodge it besides ducking behind cover. And if it makes you feel any better, I hated the dumb scorpions in TFE/TSE too. They slowed down the pace of the game unbelievably sometimes. SS ain't no bloody tactical or cover-based shooter! Suburbs in TFE being the best example of this crap.

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I'm not agree with you. SS3 introduced the most interesting enemies in the franchise, since the FE. And they have no need to be "downgraded" just because bunch of sissies are crying "Oh noo, this makes my game so hard and unfair".

Space Monkeys are easy - use the mutilator, and have no problem.
Witch-bride - they are increasing the tension, making you look arround, away from the other enemies, just to keep an eye where will spawn and prevent catching you, then must turn back on the ordinary horde, but in the meantime you must keep still eye... Well, you got the point. And that was sort of cool in the game. Yet, exept the first one-two times, until i figure how to deal with them, i met no problem with the witch-bride.
And Technopolips - yup, they are pain in the ass, but also they appear only a few times in the game and you have always a lot of explosives (even for the first one), so they are not big problem too.
It's not necessarily because they're "hard and unfair" so much as incredibly frustrating and annoying.

Killing Space Monkeys just by itself isn't a problem. It's the LOOKING for them and the waiting for them that's really annoying. They'll only ever appear right when they're going to attack you and if you're not fast enough shooting them for ANY reason or accurate enough, they'll quickly jump right back to a new hiding place and then you have to wait AGAIN for them to appear. Just for one of these assholes. The game usually tosses at least 10 at you at any one time. Sometimes with other enemies.

Witchbrides I feel also have a lot of potential. But they're even worse than Space Monkeys because they have a crapload of health. Can only be hurt when they're attacking, and they teleport almost completely randomly around, with the only way to find them being audio cues. And even then, it's not always reliable. And if they get you, they lock your movement and hold you in the air, damaging you while other enemies wail on you. It's super annoying. It's dumb. It feels dumb. It slows the game down a lot.

As far as Technopolyps go, if your only excuse for them being the game is that they're not THAT annoying, then they need a redo or need to go. XP Although to be fair, in SS3, I did test out homing rockets on them and they become much easier to fight and a little fun actually since I had the firepower to take them out nicely. But this kind of leads into my last thread detailing my alt fire ideas. So there you go.
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Old 04-24-2016, 04:50 PM   #33   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

What if the Technopolip could be hurt with any weapons, but it would take half damage from them, unless they are explosives, which then does 1.5 damage?
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Old 04-24-2016, 05:20 PM   #34   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

I think the Technopolip having resistance -but not full immunity- to anything besides explosives would be passable.
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Old 04-24-2016, 05:28 PM   #35   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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Originally Posted by Solais View Post
What if the Technopolip could be hurt with any weapons, but it would take half damage from them, unless they are explosives, which then does 1.5 damage?
That would probably be fine. But honestly, people will people just use hitscan weapons on them anyway since it's too hard to hit them with rockets. Homing rockets or at least getting rid of their auto-aim sound like slightly better solutions though. Or maybe just replacing them entirely with a new enemy. I dunno. I'd have to playtest it to give a good opinion.
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Old 04-24-2016, 05:32 PM   #36   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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What if the Technopolip could be hurt with any weapons, but it would take half damage from them, unless they are explosives, which then does 1.5 damage?
The problem is that both the Khnum and Technopolip take no damage from anything but the devastator, rocket launcher (C4 also for Khnum), laser and cannon. That really takes a lot of the interesting parts out of fighting them. Resistance is fine, immunity isn't. Not if it's immunity against more than one weapon.
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Old 04-24-2016, 05:43 PM   #37   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

How they (CroTeam) decide to include or to exclude enemies for the sequels? I really miss the variety of gnaars - male or female, levitating, invisible... The marsh-hopers, the Highlander, the firecracker & the bomber...
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Old 04-24-2016, 06:06 PM   #38   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Personally, I'd rather see less of the old monsters, the Modding Community is capable of adding those. Though if I had to pick only a few of the older mooks to add to the next game, I would likely choose Firecrackers and Bombers.
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Old 04-24-2016, 06:10 PM   #39   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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Originally Posted by Serious Sam(BG) View Post
I really miss the variety of gnaars - male or female, levitating, invisible... The marsh-hopers, the Highlander, the firecracker & the bomber...
I know Croteam needs to balance new and old things in the games, but I missed those too. They are all well designed and fun enemies and would probably make some levels more interesting.

They could have placed a couple of bombers and highlanders on top of the buildings in the early levels and give you a sniper to snipe them down. In the classics you knew that if there was a high tower or something a highlander will eventually appear there, but in SS3 all those tall buildings were left unused
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Old 04-24-2016, 06:21 PM   #40   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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Originally Posted by Discy View Post
The problem is that both the Khnum and Technopolip take no damage from anything but the devastator, rocket launcher (C4 also for Khnum), laser and cannon.
I've killed a technopolip with C4 before... I don't think the laser works on them though...
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Old 04-24-2016, 06:26 PM   #41   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

The Lasergun does nothing against Technopolips.
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Old 04-24-2016, 06:54 PM   #42   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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I've killed a technopolip with C4 before... I don't think the laser works on them though...
Huh, I didn't really care enough to try C4 on them. Thanks for the info.

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The Lasergun does nothing against Technopolips.
Right, that was patched out. If you had the laser during the Nowhere to Hide level, you could trigger the level end seconds after the Technopolip cutscene ended by just blasting it with the secret laser from earlier in the game.
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Old 04-24-2016, 07:20 PM   #43   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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Right, that was patched out. If you had the laser during the Nowhere to Hide level, you could trigger the level end seconds after the Technopolip cutscene ended by just blasting it with the secret laser from earlier in the game.
You can still blast it with the secret rocket launcher and/or C4 from earlier in the map. And, funnily enough, he appears again a bit later into the level, though if you made your shots count the first time, you should have enough left to kill him again. The level end does not trigger until you actually reach the level end area, technopolip dead or not.
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Old 04-24-2016, 08:35 PM   #44   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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Right, that was patched out. If you had the laser during the Nowhere to Hide level, you could trigger the level end seconds after the Technopolip cutscene ended by just blasting it with the secret laser from earlier in the game.
That was in beta, still.
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Old 04-24-2016, 11:55 PM   #45   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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Originally Posted by Serious Sam(BG) View Post
I really miss... The marsh-hopers
http://i.imgur.com/ahZeniL.gif

Are you the devil or something?

OK, to be fair, they were OK in TSE but only because you got the chainsaw in that game to handle them.
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Old 04-25-2016, 02:29 AM   #46   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

I liked the marsh-hoppers too.
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Old 04-25-2016, 04:40 AM   #47   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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I really miss the variety of gnaars ... the firecracker & the bomber...
I don't see why CT should put these particular enemies back to the game. There was nothing really special about firecrackers and bombers in Classics in my opinion: firecrackers were always weak and useless, while bombers required a really good spawn design and could ruin the gameplay in the newer games. Simple example is here:

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They could have placed a couple of bombers and highlanders on top of the buildings in the early levels and give you a sniper to snipe them down.
I remember playing SS3 Enhanced mod, which brought bombers back to the game, and they were literally pain in the ass in the city suburbs. For some reason modder thought it would be "super fun" to put them in such ridiculous, high and arduous areas, and in such huge numbers, so they'll simply hide and blend with the environment! And icing on that shit cake was the damage of their bombs, when all your screen goes blurry and red and you can't even figure where they're bombarding you from. Sniping simply wouldn't work in this kind of situation too, but become a Mediocrefest. So they either should be completely removed from SS4 or be balanced enough to be fun like in Classics - clearly visible, low/mid-damage and used in small numbers.
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Old 04-25-2016, 10:19 AM   #48   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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I don't see why CT should put these particular enemies back to the game. There was nothing really special about firecrackers and bombers in Classics in my opinion: firecrackers were always weak and useless, while bombers required a really good spawn design and could ruin the gameplay in the newer games. Simple example is here:

I remember playing SS3 Enhanced mod, which brought bombers back to the game, and they were literally pain in the ass in the city suburbs. For some reason modder thought it would be "super fun" to put them in such ridiculous, high and arduous areas, and in such huge numbers, so they'll simply hide and blend with the environment! And icing on that shit cake was the damage of their bombs, when all your screen goes blurry and red and you can't even figure where they're bombarding you from. Sniping simply wouldn't work in this kind of situation too, but become a Mediocrefest. So they either should be completely removed from SS4 or be balanced enough to be fun like in Classics - clearly visible, low/mid-damage and used in small numbers.
I disagree. Firecrackers are fun because they shoot at the ground and you have to jump over their bullets. It's nothing special, but adds a bit of variety to the game, and forces you to use the jump more often. Shooting at hordes of rocketeeers all the time in SS3 got a bit boring, and firecrackers would mix it up a bit.

And speaking of bombers it seems your problem was how they were used. IIRC they never appear in large numbers in the actual games, so the modder may have messed up there, but I didn't play it, so I can't comment.

And I like the marsh-hoppers. Small enemies like that have their place in these games and they were always used in an area where you got a fast shooting weapon like tommy gun, flamethrower, minigun, etc. If it were up to me I would even make a flying version, or bring back the flying gnaar
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Old 04-25-2016, 11:35 AM   #49   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

That's a good point about jumping over bullets. I never really thought about that.

I also enjoyed the marshhoppers. I thought they were better "spammable/annoying" enemies than the egypt sand creature things. They definitely made the tommy gun the best pick for them.

I think looking at it from a weapons standpoint, weapons really need to be optimal vs certain enemies. Like how the kleers take a double shotgun blast to the face to kill, marshhoppers were best taken out by tommygun...
In many instances I found the rocket launcher somewhat useless for the larger red mechs that would side strafe all the time. Partially frustrating, but it really mixed things up and made rocket launcher not just "use everywhere" gun for big enemies.
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Old 04-25-2016, 12:21 PM   #50   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

I usually handle marsh hoppers with rocket launcher though
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Old 04-25-2016, 12:30 PM   #51   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Are you guys for real? They made that annoying ass croaking sound every time they spotted you. And you sometimes didn't even know where the hell they were coming from so they'd land on you constantly while you're trying to focus on other enemies. And that's by far my biggest complaint with them. They were too small and pathetic to be a big priority in enemies but just effective enough to continually pummel your health while you're looking the other way.

Oh, and finally, don't you dare use the rocket launcher while they're out, because they sometimes like to jump RIGHT into your face right when you're just launching a rocket. Fun ****ing times.
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Old 04-25-2016, 01:01 PM   #52   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

I've beaten both TFE and TSE on Serious Difficulty numerous times and I've almost always used the rocket launcher for march hoppers pretty effectively... I guess you just need to improve your frog-blasting skills
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Old 04-25-2016, 03:13 PM   #53   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

I agree with enjoying the Marsh Hoppers, they're fun as hell when encountered by the hundreds. As long as you keep moving the damage they do should be minimized, and I would love to have another Oasis-type encounter in the new Sam game.
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Old 04-25-2016, 04:23 PM   #54   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Marsh hoppers were indeed a lot of fun. They were just these small things that you could kill by the hundreds without much of a threat. You could blast them with just about any weapon because they have almost no hit points, but you still had to consider your ammo use. Or just go chainsaw insane on them and cover everything including yourself and the entire screen in green goo.

As for immunity vs resistance, I think we concluded a long time ago that immunity is a bad thing and one should only use different levels of resistance.

As for how to make specific enemies (space monkeys, witch brides and technopolyps) more enjoyable, there are so many things that can be done. I believe we've all written quite a few suggestions in the years since SS3's release. We could repeat them, but I think many of us (and likely CT too) remember at least some of them. We can hope that they're considering them in their design for SS4, regardless of whether they keep those 3 enemies in the game or make new ones. I can write my thoughts about how those 3 could be improved in full if you want, but I'm not sure what purpose it would serve, other than making me write a wall of text.
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Old 04-25-2016, 04:27 PM   #55   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Let us see that wall of text.
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Old 04-25-2016, 04:29 PM   #56   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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Let us see that wall of text.
I hate you . But fine, you'll get your wall of text when I find the time to write it up.
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Old 04-25-2016, 05:53 PM   #57   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

What Solais should do is scan through all the SS3 and SS4 discussions and sort all the opinions we wrote about the enemies by a)the enemy itself and b)the member

It is funny that when I think about the classic enemies I see no flaws in their design or the way they were used in the levels, but in SS3 I have all these negative or mixed feelings about the new enemies. Khnum is the only one I have no complaints about, throwing C4 at them and then running away was always fun.
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Old 04-25-2016, 06:42 PM   #58   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Actually, I personally believe that some classic enemies were used wrong. For instance, firecrackers imo are a lot better used on ledges where they rain projectiles on you. Electrofishes are also quite weird.
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Old 04-25-2016, 07:04 PM   #59   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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Electrofishes are also quite weird.
Don't you say bad things about them, they are the only water enemy we got
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Old 04-25-2016, 11:17 PM   #60   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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I agree with enjoying the Marsh Hoppers, they're fun as hell when encountered by the hundreds.
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