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Serious Sam 4 The place to talk about Croteam's next title: Serious Sam 4! What do you know? What do you hope to see in the next Sam game?

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Old 04-26-2016, 03:32 AM   #61   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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We can't be friends anymore. >:(
Fine, then I want the pink sparkly "BFF 4EVER" bracelet back that I made you.
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Old 04-26-2016, 01:58 PM   #62   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Serious Sam is really missing something now that I think about it. Remember how in TFE/TSE there were different enemy spawns for different difficulty settings? Higher difficulties would replace some weaker enemies with some stronger enemies, and generally add a lot more enemies, the easier difficulties doing the opposite. SS2 didn't have this at all, SS3 has it but barelly noticable. SS4 should not only return that, but there's something else that would be even better. Higher difficulties should not only add more challenging battles, but also should add more puzzles, traps, additional keys to hunt, make existing puzzles and traps a bit harder, etc., generally adding extra difficulty to the non-battle parts as well, and in a way improving the replayability of the game.
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Old 04-26-2016, 04:50 PM   #63   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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Fine, then I want the pink sparkly "BFF 4EVER" bracelet back that I made you.
FINE.

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Serious Sam is really missing something now that I think about it. Remember how in TFE/TSE there were different enemy spawns for different difficulty settings? Higher difficulties would replace some weaker enemies with some stronger enemies, and generally add a lot more enemies, the easier difficulties doing the opposite. SS2 didn't have this at all, SS3 has it but barelly noticable. SS4 should not only return that, but there's something else that would be even better. Higher difficulties should not only add more challenging battles, but also should add more puzzles, traps, additional keys to hunt, make existing puzzles and traps a bit harder, etc., generally adding extra difficulty to the non-battle parts as well, and in a way improving the replayability of the game.
While I agree with a lot of this, I think the "more puzzles and traps" should be a separate option in the menu instead of linked directly with the difficulty setting. People may not want to fiddle around with any puzzles and may just want to blow stuff up. Or maybe it's the other way around.

I don't think this is going to fly though as this would require a complete redesign of SS maps.
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Old 04-26-2016, 06:01 PM   #64   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

One place I can remember they tried something like that in the past was in the Palenque crusher room, on Easy there were safe alcoves for the 2 switches, Normal and higher there weren't so you had to retreat back. I liked it, sadly, it wasn't used much more...
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Old 04-26-2016, 07:09 PM   #65   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

It is definitely possible, yeah. In Serious Sam HD Extended, on one of the levels, I included a set of corridors that have a completely different (and harder) layout on Hard and Serious, than on Normal.
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Old 04-27-2016, 06:36 PM   #66   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

While I stated before what kind of new enemies Serious Sam series needs, I think the main thing Croteam has to to is to look at Serious Sam 1, 2 and 3 and put the best of them together.
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Old 04-27-2016, 06:43 PM   #67   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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FINE.

*throws it at you and runs away crying*



While I agree with a lot of this, I think the "more puzzles and traps" should be a separate option in the menu instead of linked directly with the difficulty setting. People may not want to fiddle around with any puzzles and may just want to blow stuff up. Or maybe it's the other way around.

I don't think this is going to fly though as this would require a complete redesign of SS maps.
Puzzles can always be combined with blowing stuff up.
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Old 04-27-2016, 07:17 PM   #68   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

How about a little bit of experimentation when it comes to mission structure, something besides run through the level and kill everything? How about a more non-linear format where you have to protect a base or something and enemies are attacking on multiple fronts, in which you have to move from one hotspot to another and prevent all of them from becoming overriden. You can use turrets to provide a moderate level of defense for the areas that you are not directly protecting, or maybe even NPCs that you can command. Throw a little bit of RTS sauce into the mix.
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Old 04-28-2016, 01:41 PM   #69   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Some more focus on Versus Multiplayer. Some leaderboards/statistic wouldn't hurt. At least really, any kind of reward for playing it would be really welcome and make people play for more than a week after the game release.
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Old 04-28-2016, 02:01 PM   #70   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

I though there were leaderboards in the games since SSHD.
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Old 04-28-2016, 02:36 PM   #71   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Not for Versus Multiplayer.
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Old 04-28-2016, 04:42 PM   #72   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Map as intermission loading screen.
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Old 04-30-2016, 10:33 AM   #73   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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Map as intermission loading screen.
This.
I'm quite sad that they decided to not include that in SSHD.
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Old 04-30-2016, 11:44 AM   #74   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

I actually agree. I try suggesting this once in a while to CT.
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Old 04-30-2016, 12:53 PM   #75   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Well, I think all of us agree that Serious Sam franchise needs secret levels + map loading screen

Why they removed it anyway?
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Old 04-30-2016, 02:05 PM   #76   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Most likely because Serious Sam 2 has a lot of levels, and the player crosses too big a distance between every theme world I guess. Then after that the idea was probably just forgotten. I agree with adding it back in, along with secret levels.
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Old 04-30-2016, 05:25 PM   #77   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

These 3 pages are just us repeating how we want them to bring back stuff from the classics and expand on that formula, and how SS3 failed to do so in many different ways. In short it seems that what we want is to finally get a true sequel to the Second Encounter.
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Old 04-30-2016, 06:37 PM   #78   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

^ This
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Old 04-30-2016, 11:06 PM   #79   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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These 3 pages are just us repeating how we want them to bring back stuff from the classics and expand on that formula, and how SS3 failed to do so in many different ways. In short it seems that what we want is to finally get a true sequel to the Second Encounter.
While I think this is true, I want to add that I don't think SS3 was a failure, or that I don't love some things that it added. Also, in 2016, I personally wouldn't want to play "SS:FE or SS:SE with new content." I think some of the stuff in those games feel dated and awkward to play. I think SS3 did a good job modernizing Serious Sam... I just think it sort of like... missed the core charm of the franchise, so to speak.

I wouldn't want to play SS4 and think that Croteam tried to go "too far backwards" to appeal to FE and SE fans.. the right move is definitely forward from SS3.
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Old 05-01-2016, 04:00 AM   #80   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

The typical SS3 hater:
"SS3 failed because had iron sights (on two weapons!), reloading (on three weapons except the pistol!!) and these unfair hitscan enemies, which "broke" the gameplay... *blah-blah-blah* *cry-cry-cry*"
Well, IMO the problems of SS3 are concentrated in the level design itself:
- Too opened in backwards;
- The endless sprint - it is not a minus by itself, but combined with the opened levels gives too much space for avoiding the enemies, while killing them. Otherwise is good feature.
- No jump 'n run elements (except the rolling stone and rotating archs in "Last man on Earth" and the bunch of j'nrs in the end of "Together forever" in the Nile DLC.
- All the assets are grouped on similar type gives the levels feeling for a humdrum. Same and same columns, grouped always the same way... Same for the tomb parts - they are too repetitive - dark empty corridors, hall full of columns and space monkeys, and in the meantime there is no tomb as separate level.
- If some weapons are "secret only" why they didn't put more weapons? Also more ammo for the current secret weapons.
- Lack of humorous secrets - I always imagined in the "Unearthing the sun" instead of secret laser weapons, there is a secret phone boot
- Missing too much old enemies.

And actually this is all what I didn't liked too much in the game. I like the dialogues, the jokes in them, the cutscenes, all the enemies and new features as the endless sprinting, melee attacks (are better done even compared to the upcoming DooM), the weapons... The game have a lot of classic feeling and make me feel like what FE made me feel back in the day, while playing it.
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Old 05-01-2016, 04:51 AM   #81   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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While I think this is true, I want to add that I don't think SS3 was a failure, or that I don't love some things that it added. Also, in 2016, I personally wouldn't want to play "SS:FE or SS:SE with new content." I think some of the stuff in those games feel dated and awkward to play. I think SS3 did a good job modernizing Serious Sam... I just think it sort of like... missed the core charm of the franchise, so to speak.

I wouldn't want to play SS4 and think that Croteam tried to go "too far backwards" to appeal to FE and SE fans.. the right move is definitely forward from SS3.
This. It makes more sense to take Serious Sam 3 and build upon that with elements from the earlier games than the other way around.
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Old 05-01-2016, 05:26 AM   #82   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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This. It makes more sense to take Serious Sam 3 and build upon that with elements from the earlier games than the other way around.
No that makes no sense, because SS3 didn't bring anything new that you can build on. You don't mean reloading, sprinting, melee attacks and a bunch of cinematics ? Those are such minor changes that it's laughable.

Like I already said we just seem to point out how SS3 is missing stuff from the classics, so logically one would make the conclusion that TSE is a superior Serious Sam game, and it would make sense that that should be the foundation of the future games that they should build on. And I said foundation, you know, stuff you build on, expand. I'm not saying we need a new TSE I said we need a sequel to it. Since SS3 seems to be inferior in many ways, taking that as the base would be like reinventing the wheel, which makes no sense when you already have a superior foundation that sits there unused for 14 years already.

Just look at that indie game Bogus Encounter, there are so many great ideas there, and they take inspiration from the classics, and not SS3, and build on those ideas and expand it. It's colorful, fun, with a sense of adventure and exploration, with lots of enemies, then they added some perks, new powerups, traps, enemy infigting, there seem to be some "defend the base" maps or something, and God knows what else. It seems far superior game design than SS3. Even Double D with it's gunstacker brought something new, and was more original than SS3.

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Old 05-01-2016, 05:32 AM   #83   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Actually, Bogus Detour also takes inspirations from SS3, like in enemies and weapons, also there being a sort of "sprint" (with the dodge). I do like many of its level design decisions, yeah.

Also, I say that sprinting is a pretty large change in SS3. Since it was introduced, I can't play older SS without instinctively pressing shift. From CT's point of view, everyone agrees that it is now a mainstay feature.

When it comes to SS3, I personally see it as a return to the basics with TFE, that's why it's missing TSE-like stuff. And SS4 was promised to be more TSE-like, so... we'll see.
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Old 05-01-2016, 05:53 AM   #84   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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Actually, Bogus Detour also takes inspirations from SS3, like in enemies and weapons, also there being a sort of "sprint" (with the dodge). I do like many of its level design decisions, yeah.
Sprint/dodge is almost a standard thing in top down shooters, they didn't take that from SS3. And they also use stuff from SS2 (which I totally support, and CT should do the same), but the core of the overall design are the classics. Even the Netricsa is finally the classic version which everybody was asking for for a decade now.

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Also, I say that sprinting is a pretty large change in SS3. Since it was introduced, I can't play older SS without instinctively pressing shift. From CT's point of view, everyone agrees that it is now a mainstay feature.
I simply can't put that in the same category as some major design overhaul. Look at Shadow Warrior reboot, it has advanced melee combat. And after all these years we get button press that increases the speed. C'mon.

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When it comes to SS3, I personally see it as a return to the basics with TFE, that's why it's missing TSE-like stuff.
Just like I said, reinventing the wheel, when there was no need for it.
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Old 05-01-2016, 06:09 AM   #85   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Hmm, technically, there was no need to it, from our perspective as fans. But I think, the rest of the gaming community needed that, to get new fans, after such a long time of silence. (Not counting SSHD.) And SS3 sold REALLY well, so that must mean something. Now that CT is back in the saddle again and got a larger userbase than a few 30-40-something old dudes on a long forgotten forum, they can go forward yet again.
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Old 05-01-2016, 06:26 AM   #86   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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Hmm, technically, there was no need to it, from our perspective as fans. But I think, the rest of the gaming community needed that, to get new fans, after such a long time of silence. (Not counting SSHD.) And SS3 sold REALLY well, so that must mean something. Now that CT is back in the saddle again and got a larger userbase than a few 30-40-something old dudes on a long forgotten forum, they can go forward yet again.
Oh I will count SSHD, because that reboot did the job you are talking about already and prepared the community. I think SS3 would sell no matter what at that point and there was no need for a second reboot in three years.
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Old 05-01-2016, 06:31 AM   #87   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

I don't really think so. SSHD really didn't generate as much media buzz as SS3 did, and actually sold half as much as SS3.
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Old 05-01-2016, 06:50 AM   #88   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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I don't really think so. SSHD really didn't generate as much media buzz as SS3 did, and actually sold half as much as SS3.
Well, of course it didn't, the series was "dead", and it was just a reboot to make people and media remember Serious Sam is still a thing and prepare for SS3. Do you think SS3 would sell so well without the HD reboots ? First you say how SS3 made the community and media more aware of Serious Sam which will benefit SS4, and now seem to forget that SS HD might have done the same for SS3 sales ?

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Old 05-01-2016, 06:55 AM   #89   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Might be. The media and sales are often separate. Like with Talos. Didn't sell as much as the Serious Sam games, but generated insane media buzz. SS4 is really in the best position to be the next big thing, both in sales and media. Hope it will be that.
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Old 05-01-2016, 07:11 AM   #90   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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Might be. The media and sales are often separate. Like with Talos. Didn't sell as much as the Serious Sam games, but generated insane media buzz. SS4 is really in the best position to be the next big thing, both in sales and media. Hope it will be that.
Not sure about those "low" Talos sales, seem pretty damn good to me for such a niche title. Also Talos isn't even 2 years out, I wouldn't be surprised if it surpasses most of their SS games in the next 2 years.

Yes, CT is in a good position now, but I doubt SS will ever be the next big thing, it can't compete with Borderlands or something, and it's not really Stardew Valley or Undertale material to take off quickly I doubt even Doom 4 will be the next big thing.
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