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Serious Sam 4 The place to talk about Croteam's next title: Serious Sam 4! What do you know? What do you hope to see in the next Sam game?

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Old 05-01-2016, 07:17 AM   #91   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

I didn't mean it like that, but within the series. The next TSE.
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Old 05-01-2016, 09:01 AM   #92   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

It's fucking impressive how well the Serious Sam series is still received. Any attempt at old-school shooters in nearly the last decade has been mostly met with a big collective 'meh' at best from the mainstream. Duke Nukem, Rage, Bulletstorm, Wolfenstein 2009, and more. We'll have to see how the new Doom will stack up as an old-school shooter.
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Old 05-01-2016, 09:33 AM   #93   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Btw fun fact: SS3 sold a million more than the Shadow Warrior reboot, even though SW got more media buzz. Then again, SS3 is like 90% off every time Damjan trips over his guitar, so.
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Old 05-01-2016, 09:47 AM   #94   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Serious Sam offers the largest enemy counts + good cooperative mode. That's why.
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Old 05-01-2016, 10:13 AM   #95   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

While I personally didn't want to add any suggestions to what SS is missing in general, just commenting on things, I think there's one that needs to be mentioned:

SS is missing an actual good COOPERATIVE mode. Not a "co-optional" mode, that's basically 16 people playing in singleplayer on the same level. A mode where you actually have to work together.
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Old 05-01-2016, 11:17 AM   #96   Add To Ignore List  
 
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solais View Post
SS is missing an actual good COOPERATIVE mode. Not a "co-optional" mode, that's basically 16 people playing in singleplayer on the same level. A mode where you actually have to work together.
Fuck working together. I don't want to cooperate with random strangers.
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Old 05-01-2016, 01:35 PM   #97   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solais View Post
While I personally didn't want to add any suggestions to what SS is missing in general, just commenting on things, I think there's one that needs to be mentioned:

SS is missing an actual good COOPERATIVE mode. Not a "co-optional" mode, that's basically 16 people playing in singleplayer on the same level. A mode where you actually have to work together.
This can be achieved by removing the useless "Standard co-op", which SS3 added and making sort of "Seriouscore co-op" (game of words, where "Hardcore" is reworked in SS style) which have enabled friendly fire, item share, no extra lives.
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Old 05-01-2016, 03:38 PM   #98   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Also forced co-operation is a terrible idea if playing with random people, like Target aptly pointed out. Sadly there's a lot of trolls and griefers on the internet.
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Old 05-01-2016, 04:03 PM   #99   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

To be honest, I find the idea of playing with random strangers on the internet to be so alien.
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Old 05-01-2016, 04:31 PM   #100   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Yeah, but you also can play and with firends, right? There are a lot options to restrict strangers from entering your server.

Also such harder mode wont be easy to handle in single event.
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Old 05-01-2016, 06:15 PM   #101   Add To Ignore List  
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Post Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solais View Post
Btw fun fact: SS3 sold a million more than the Shadow Warrior reboot, even though SW got more media buzz. Then again, SS3 is like 90% off every time Damjan trips over his guitar, so.
Plus Shadow Warrior released 2 years later. I think you keep forgetting that SS3 released almost 100 years ago, back in 2011
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Old 05-01-2016, 06:44 PM   #102   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Sure, but again, media buzz.
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Old 05-01-2016, 07:05 PM   #103   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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I think you keep forgetting that SS3 released almost 100 years ago, back in 2011
For some reasons, even I still get the feeling that SS3 is a recent game... weird.
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Old 05-01-2016, 07:07 PM   #104   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solais View Post
Sure, but again, media buzz.
I wonder how was the buzz for that game in Eastern Europe and Russia ? I know Shadow Warrior was often mentioned in western game sites I follow, but I also know SS is insanely huge in the former Soviet block. More than 60% of the views I get on my Serious Sam videos on YouTube are coming from there. I wonder if it is just SS, or they just like classic games back there ?

Last edited by AntonioR; 05-01-2016 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 05-01-2016, 08:52 PM   #105   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Don't know if this has been mentioned before or not but, how about co-op bots/bot you can play with in co-op campaign mode is chosen. (also I want them brought to the versus mode)

This may be good for those who don't have the luxury of playing with others.
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Old 05-04-2016, 09:27 PM   #106   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

@Discy
Wolfenstein The New Order did freakin amazin, and everyone sees how good an old school shooter can be.
Hopefully Doom will be as good, or better, than W:TNO

@Everyone else
PLEASE dont make CT take away Campaign Coop!
I would much rather have that than a cruddy MP.
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Old 05-05-2016, 05:19 AM   #107   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Quote:
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@Discy
Wolfenstein The New Order did freakin amazin, and everyone sees how good an old school shooter can be.
Hopefully Doom will be as good, or better, than W:TNO
Yeah, Wolfenstein: TNO and TOB are the exceptions, along with Hard Reset. These games actually did pretty well considering there's little interest in arcade shooters from the mainstream.
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Old 05-05-2016, 06:02 AM   #108   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

The new Wolfensteins are the prime examples how to marry old-school design with modern design, while pleasing both fans. They are not perfect, but still very good.
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Old 05-06-2016, 07:33 AM   #109   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Discy View Post
Also forced co-operation is a terrible idea if playing with random people, like Target aptly pointed out. Sadly there's a lot of trolls and griefers on the internet.
Well, yes and no. It depends on what you define as "forced co-operation". If you mean that you can't progress at all without people co-operating at tasks, then yes, it's a challenge with random people on the internet (though not impossible). If you mean that the difficulty of the game increases to the point where co-operation is a necessity to survive, then there are plenty of games out there that force co-operation. I'm gonna go with the latter definition, since it makes the most sense in a game like SS.

Most team-based versus game types can be regarded as "forced co-operation". If you want to go for a forced co-op campaign, then games like Left 4 Dead certainly prove that it's possible. It basically forced people to work together, as a loss of a teammate increases the difficulty significantly, and at higher difficulties to the point where it makes the difference between completing a level or failing.
In SS there is no real penalty for losing a teammate in co-op - at least not with the settings that people prefer to play with. The limited lives system in SS makes it possible to force people to co-operate in a similar manner as L4D does. However, in SS those lives are shared among all players (I don't remember if it's possible to make it per player), which means that a single player can willfully (or accidentally) ruin the game for the entire team.

Other FPS games (e.g. Gears of War) have forced players down different paths, where the players are physically separated but need to cover each other to complete the game. However, while dividing players like that for local co-op or 2-player co-op is possible, I'm not sure it would actually work in a "free for all" style co-op campaign like SS - at least it would be significantly more difficult to do. More so when you consider that these "split" mechanics are often used together with doors and passages that one path has to open for the other for progression. Of course you could skip that part and just go for the cover style mechanics.
One could do a support style split in a game like SS by dividing which weapons players get on each path and balancing the enemies in the split and after the split such that the fight is easier if both paths are used and people support each other. It would of course be a necessity that it is impossible for players to backtrack through the split to get weapons from both sides. It would also force players to choose their play styles and favorite weapons and make each playthrough more unique as the weapon constellation of the group would be different every time.

Another simple way of forcing players to co-operate in co-op is to divide the tasks. For an example, lets use an airplane. You have two seats, a pilot and a gunner. The pilot can't shoot and is responsible for movement and dodging of enemy fire. The gunner is responsible for attacking with whatever weapon they're given. There are many examples of these styles of vehicles in games. However, they're often designed so that both pilot and gunner have a weapon to fire and that the more powerful weapon is in the hands of the pilot. This makes the gunner a useful addition, but not a necessity.
And of course, it does leave the entire situation open to idiots that just take off. In my experience however, most players actually understand that co-operation is the better route and thus do as intended i.e. fill the vehicle(s) in a useful and meaningful way.

Another way of "forcing" co-operation is healing and boosting mechanics - i.e. players can heal each other and boost each other's damage by certain actions. This is the mechanic we most often see in team-based versus games (outside of the simple fact that people have the same objective).

Item sharing is another option. However that kinda clashes with the arcade style of a game like SS. But even here, it's not completely out of the question. One could share ammo or lives with their teammates by dropping them on the ground.

There are so many mechanics that can be used to "force" people to co-operate without actually making it necessary for progression. If you increase the benefits of cooperation and increase the punishment of non-cooperation, then most players will naturally follow the path of least resistance i.e. co-operation.

Last edited by jasser; 05-06-2016 at 07:35 AM.
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Old 05-06-2016, 10:11 AM   #110   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Well I finally got around to doing that wall of text I promised Solais earlier in the tread. So here goes - space monkeys, witch brides, technopolyps and possible ways of improving them, so they're more fun to fight.

Space Monkeys
Space monkeys are a different style of enemy than most SS enemies. However, they’re also a style of enemy that I believe don’t fit into the flow and pace of an SS game. And I guess a lot of people agree, given how many complaints we’ve heard about them.

The issue relates to some of their core behavior, which while new, isn’t suitable for a high pace shooter like SS. The problem with their behavior is that the two main characteristics of it compound to produce an enemy that completely kills the pace of the game.

The first main characteristic is that they hide. The idea here isn’t necessarily a problem, but the specific implementation is annoying, as they’ll hide continually as long as the player is facing in their direction.

The second main characteristic is that they only attack when your back is turned to them. I don’t really think that this idea is compatible with the core SS game play.

The first and second main characteristic combine to make an enemy that is difficult to spot and even more difficult to dispose of. Not because they have a lot of hit points, but because the player essentially has to adopt a strategy where they turn their back on the enemy and then spin back around and do a twitch-shot on the enemy. This in itself is in my opinion not a suitable design for an SS enemy.

The problem is further compounded by how they’re used in the game. They’re almost exclusively used in dark rooms with a ton of pillars for them to hide behind. This allows them to attack from many sides, which is a good thing, but it makes it way too easy for them to hide after an attack.

Given their behavior, players tend to ignore them while they fight other enemies and flat out skip them where possible. Due to their behavior there is no sensible way to deal with them when you’re engaged with other enemies, and they don’t do sufficient damage to be a priority target. So once you’re done with a fight, you still have these pesky little hiding bastards to deal with. At this point, they’re just something that needs to be cleaned up (i.e. a chore), so you can get all the kills. Like any cleaning task, this is boring as hell. You wait, you spot, you wait, you spot, you wait some more, you shoot something, then you wait some more. After this has gone on for a while, you finally have a clean area and can move along.

They reduce the pace of the game, but where puzzles, story and exploration do so in a fun and interesting way, space monkeys do it in the worst possible way – they make you wait (and wait, and…).

Another issue with them is that they don’t actually function on the ground. Their ground behavior is limited to “find the nearest vertical surface to jump onto” – even if that vertical surface is halfway across the map. And they run toward it in a straight line. Occasionally they’ll do the opposite and b-line for your face, but in my experience that’s rare. This lack of ground functionality leads to its own set of behavioral issues, where if you clear the pillars, you get a group of space monkeys that just sit on a wall and wait to be shot, because a) they have nowhere to hide and b) you’re out of attack range. So the AI doesn’t know what to do with them, and they’re left in limbo just hanging still on the wall.

So how do you make space monkeys an enemy more fitting of the SS game play, more fun to fight and maybe even an actual boon to the fight mechanics? Well, you redesign the above short comings. Usually I’d say that you can do so without necessarily redesigning the entire idea behind the enemy, but with space monkeys, their main characteristics are part of the problem. Any or all of the following suggestions could make space monkeys more fun.
  1. The second main characteristic (only attack when player is facing away from enemy) needs to go away. Space monkeys should attack regardless of whether the player is facing them or not. SS isn’t a horror game and things flying towards your face are just as scary when you can see them coming miles away (e.g. kleers). So space monkeys won’t lose anything of that from having the second main characteristic removed. We already know this behavior from having them sitting on a wall and getting too close. You still get plenty surprised when they suddenly jump at your face.
  2. The first main characteristic (hiding) needs to be toned down. Hiding isn’t necessarily a problem, but if they’re always hiding, then it’s pretty darn difficult to fight them. So they need to hide less – this could be achieved by making them alternate between hide and attack mode (requires that option 1 is implemented). An alternative is to go with option 3.
  3. Replace the first main characteristic (hiding) with one that gives a similar effect. Instead of having the space monkeys hide, one could simply give them a random movement function – i.e. make them move around randomly from position to position between attacks. You’d achieve the same effect of them attacking from all sides and being difficult to track and predict. But without the annoying hiding that forces the player to wait for them to come out and play.
  4. Give them a ground behavior. Instead of limiting them to vertical surfaces only, give them the option to move on the ground and fight from the ground. It’s really weird that something which should essentially be behaving like a monkey is unable to actually move and fight from the ground. It would also avoid the issue of them being sitting ducks when the player is out of range of their leap attack, as they’d be able to jump onto the ground and move closer.
  5. One could grant them with the ability to throw stuff at the player i.e. a projectile attack. This might make them too similar to the spider however. They’d essentially become a more agile, faster version of the spider, with the ability to jump on your face.
  6. Swarm/group behavior. Instead of them all doing their own thing, one could give them some sort of swarm/group behavior. Something fitting for their overall use and idea would be to have them try to form a circle around the player. Any skilled player would quickly learn that the more they are able to circle you, the more dangerous they become and would therefore aim to avoid such a situation.


The Witch Bride
The witch brides are also an enemy that differs greatly in style from most SS enemies. They’re actually an interesting enemy, but they have some characteristics and mechanics that make them break the flow and pace of the game.

First of all, there is their attack. It makes the player lose control of both movement and aim. It raises you into the air, shakes your view and takes control of your aim. And it gives damage. This makes witch brides a priority target, because it completely takes you out of the fight, without any real way of countering what is going on. This issue is compounded by the fact that they warp around between the attacks.

And that brings me to the second issue, the warping. The warping itself isn’t actually the problem - it’s part of what makes the witch bride a dangerous enemy. It’s some of the mechanics around the warping that create the issue. Let’s shortly cover an attack.
  1. Witch bride warps in, is immune to all damage. If you hit her in this state, she’ll just warp out again.
  2. Immunity to damage disappears when she’s attacking. There is a small charge up to her attack, which leaves the player with a short moment where they can damage her, before her attack hits the player.
  3. Hitting her when she’s not immune will break her attack and make her instantly warp out.

Now, it’s the combination of these things that make her an annoying enemy to fight, especially when there are other enemies around. While she presents a significant threat and is a priority target, it’s rather easy to keep her out of the fight – just shoot her with a hitscan weapon whenever she appears. In the fights in SS3, this gives a distraction from the other enemies, but doesn’t necessarily present an actual danger, since you can keep her out of the fight quite easily. And any skilled player will keep them out of the fight, because if you don’t, her attack will take you out of the fight and get you completely owned by the other enemies.

The issue with keeping her out of the fight is that once the fight is over, you’re still left with all the witch brides. And given that it is now even easier to keep them down, it really becomes a matter of cleaning up. And cleaning them up is boring as hell, because it forces the player to wait. You have to wait for them to warp in, then you have to wait for them to start attacking, then you shoot them only to watch them warp out immediately. And then you can repeat this process till they’re dead. Hell, I get bored just describing the process, much less playing through it.

The issue here is how many rounds this process takes if you don’t use the correct weapons. Unless you want to spend all day there, you have to use a weapon that does heavy damage with a single shot (e.g. RL), but also something that travels fast enough to reach them in the very short timeframe that is the charge up of their attack (e.g. sniper, devastator). That means using your most powerful weapons to shorten the process. And your choice of weapon is further reduced by the travel time – i.e. if they warp in at a significant distance, using the RL is difficult because of the long travel time to reach them. So you fire pre-emptively based on experience and hope that their immunity will disappear just before the rocket reaches them. Or you use a weapon with a faster travel time (e.g. devastator).

So how do you avoid that the witch bride becomes an annoying distraction during fights and a dragged out cleanup chore after the fight? Well, you address those shortcomings. Any or all of the following could make her a more fun enemy.
  1. Instead of her warping out the instant she gets hit, make it damage based – i.e. she warps out once she’s taken a certain amount of damage (e.g. 25% of her maximum HP).
  2. Make the waiting time between her warping out and warping in shorter – at least for the case where you hit her while she’s immune.
  3. Change her attack. Instead of stripping all control from the player (movement, vision and aim), change the way her attack works, so that it only strips out one of those components – namely movement.
  4. Make her attack more fun by giving it an area of effect. Instead of just raising the player into the air, raise everything around the player (i.e. enemies, teammates) into the air as well. It still leaves the player highly vulnerable to ranged attacks, but prevents that the player is completely blocked and overwhelmed by melee enemies once the witch bride’s attack has ended.
    The player is left with some room for movement after they get to the ground.
  5. For extra kicks on option 4, instead of simply raising everything in the area of effect, make it a sort of anti-gravity effect, where teammate and enemy inertia is maintained (in full or in part) once they hit the field. In this case the player is still vulnerable to both ranged and melee attacks, but is not completely surrounded by enemies once the bride’s attack ends. It would also allow teammates to do some really funky moves by “abusing” the anti-gravity field created by the bride.
    With reduced inertia it would also make it easier for both the player and their teammates to take out incoming melee attacks.


The Technopolyp
The technopolyp is a fairly standard SS enemy, but it has some characteristics that have made some players dislike it.

The main issue people have with it is that it is immune to everything but explosives. This combined with its rather good ability to dodge projectile attacks, makes it difficult to hit it. The other issue is that it’s a flying turret which is impossible to dodge. You only option to avoid damage is to hide. And obviously many players have an issue with this.

None of these are large issue, but they do take some of the fun out of fighting the technopolyp. Any or all of the below could make it a better enemy.
  1. Remove the immunity. Use resistance (e.g. 50%) instead.
  2. The description of the technopolyp states that it has regenerative capabilities, which make it immune to bullets, etc. Make the technopolyp actually regenerate. This can be an alternative solution to option 1, where regeneration is used to curtail damage instead of resistance.
    Also, the technopolyp doesn’t run away, so regeneration just means you take it down in one fast attack or waste ammo doing so over several attacks. Either way, it presents a continual threat until it’s entirely dead.
  3. Change its minigun attack. Instead of it hitting you full on every time, ties the aim to the turn ratio of the technopolyp i.e. it can only shoot straight ahead. Tune the turn ratio so it is possible to “outrun” the burst of bullets if you’re close enough and using sprinting to move sideways relative to the technopolyp front. For kicks, it would also allow you to sprint under it, forcing it to turn around and gaining a moment of sanctuary in the process. Only the horizontal aim of the technopolyp would be affected by this. Its vertical aim would be 90 degrees, with movement fast enough to make it damn near perfect.
  4. Add a proper spread to the burst of bullets it shoots at the player. I think there is already some spread, but it needs to be widened, so that it doesn’t do as much damage when the technopolyp is far away.


Told you it was gonna be a wall of text . If you actually read through it, feel free to rip it all apart and tell me how horrible it is.
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Old 05-06-2016, 10:32 AM   #111   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Good post!
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Old 05-06-2016, 10:40 AM   #112   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Meanwhile, in alternative timeline of our existence.
In the alternative year 2001, First Encounter contains also Space Monkeys, Witch-brides, Clone Soldiers, Spiders, Technopolips and Khnums. And they are missing in the sequels.

Now moving forward to the alternative year 2016 - everyone wants the missing oldie enemies and type wall of posts, how the gameplay is broken without them.
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Old 05-06-2016, 11:17 AM   #113   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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Originally Posted by Serious Sam(BG) View Post
Meanwhile, in alternative timeline of our existence.
In the alternative year 2001, First Encounter contains also Space Monkeys, Witch-brides, Clone Soldiers, Spiders, Technopolips and Khnums. And they are missing in the sequels.

Now moving forward to the alternative year 2016 - everyone wants the missing oldie enemies and type wall of posts, how the gameplay is broken without them.
People literally wrote entire essays about how these enemies can be improved and again you keep babbling nonsense. Bad design is a bad design, in 2001 or 2016.
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Old 05-06-2016, 12:26 PM   #114   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Nope. The people want just a bunch of different looking projectile enemies.

Serious Sam 3 just put something fresh for the series as enemies. And I don't type wall-of-post because nobody reads it. Did someone noticed my post about the weak spots of Serious Sam 3? Nope. Because the problems of SS3 are not the enemies. At least not the new ones. I understand to say "Technopolips are breaking the gameplay" if there are countless armies of Technopolips, but there are like 10 technopolips in the whole game (without the ones that arrive at the final boss battle), and half of them appear at the last level, and the other five-six are spread on the other levels, and in the worst case you have at least rocket launcher to deal with no more than two technopolips at the same time. Meanwhile you have also corners to hide and endless ammo. I didn't met any problems to deal with all of them. And on the final level you have Devastator and Cannon full of ammo.

So, the endless spawn of rocketeers, which make the game to feel really tedious is not a problem, but 9-10 spacemonkeys are game-breaking pain in the ass? Come on, I enjoyed those parts mostly. Run in the centre, hear the scream, turn on it's direction, use the mutilator, repeat until the last one. Proceed forward.

There are three "main" boss battles, and two of them are just the same "boss" - the alcor class warship, and it's really just the same, and that is not a problem, but the same time old faces like the Highlander (or it's bride) are completely missing from the game and that's also not a problem, problem are the hitscan enemies.

What is "Poor enemy design" anyway? Doesn't like the outfit? The look of the new enemies? No, it's all the attacks and behavior. All of you, crybabies, want it more easy, more predictible, more easy to avoid.

What's next? "Hey, CroTeam, why not make the enemies in Serious Sam 5 spawn directly in front of my crosshair, because the game is too hard with this free look mode..."
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Old 05-06-2016, 01:19 PM   #115   Add To Ignore List  
 
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Why is Croteam making an another Serious Sam game? What is the main intention behind it?
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Old 05-06-2016, 02:01 PM   #116   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

To give their fanboys another reason to complain about stupid things.
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Old 05-06-2016, 03:11 PM   #117   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

It's quite clear that not everyone is going to be pleased with how new enemies in Serious Sam are designed. Yes, one could concede that the roster of new monsters (in the case of jasser's post, Cave Demons, Witch-Brides, Technopolips) add an interesting element to the fight, but does that make them fun to deal with? Well, that's highly subjective.

Serious Sam is classified as a fast-paced series. You're always on the move, and consequently, the enemies are in hot pursuit. But all three of these enemies, as pointed out, tend to slow down the pace immensely. It probably wouldn't be subject to negativity if this were a different game series altogether, but in order to maintain Sam's reputation of being a fast-paced shooter, this selection of monsters should reflect that.

So the obvious solution -if these monsters are to be included in the next sequel- is to make them less irritating to fight. It's not entirely stripping away the challenge if you also change certain attacks (the antigravity idea for the Witch-Bride is neat). Say, for example, what if the Witch-Bride's telekinesis attack were changed so that she could toss rocks and bits of debris in your direction? That would encourage players to stay on the move, which as I'll reiterate, is a huge part of what makes Serious Sam the game that it is.
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Old 05-06-2016, 03:56 PM   #118   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

I agree it will be good if these enemies have other variations too. But I won't remove or change the old ones

Btw, in revolution, there is one new kind of beheaded - comando. It's pretty cool if arrive in the main franchise too.
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Old 05-06-2016, 04:43 PM   #119   Add To Ignore List  
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Thanks, I made that.
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Old 05-06-2016, 04:44 PM   #120   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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Originally Posted by Serious Sam(BG) View Post
Nope. The people want just a bunch of different looking projectile enemies.
Not really no, we just want a more balanced game that doesn't force you into hiding all the time. SS has always been about movement - a dance with projectiles if you will. Hitscan enemies have always been a part of the game, but not to the extent seen in SS3. So it's not about removing them, it's about the player having other options of avoiding massive damage from them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Sam(BG) View Post
Serious Sam 3 just put something fresh for the series as enemies. And I don't type wall-of-post because nobody reads it. Did someone noticed my post about the weak spots of Serious Sam 3? Nope. Because the problems of SS3 are not the enemies. At least not the new ones.
Well, no, but we've also been around the topic of level design, storytelling, secrets, humor, vibe, exploration, and so on. But the fights are such a large part of SS that you can't ignore enemy design and the flow and pacing of those fights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Sam(BG) View Post
I understand to say "Technopolips are breaking the gameplay" if there are countless armies of Technopolips, but there are like 10 technopolips in the whole game (without the ones that arrive at the final boss battle), and half of them appear at the last level, and the other five-six are spread on the other levels, and in the worst case you have at least rocket launcher to deal with no more than two technopolips at the same time. Meanwhile you have also corners to hide and endless ammo. I didn't met any problems to deal with all of them. And on the final level you have Devastator and Cannon full of ammo.
True, they don't appear much, and you have plenty of opportunity to take them down. Hell, I'd gladly take more of them, but not the way they are now. The way they are now, they'd rip you apart in a large fight where you have to deal with a lot of other things. And I don't see them as pace killers either, cause while you have to hide from their attack, you also have to stay on the move to avoid them circling around to the other side of your cover.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Sam(BG) View Post
So, the endless spawn of rocketeers, which make the game to feel really tedious is not a problem, but 9-10 spacemonkeys are game-breaking pain in the ass? Come on, I enjoyed those parts mostly. Run in the centre, hear the scream, turn on it's direction, use the mutilator, repeat until the last one. Proceed forward.
Not game breaking, but can definitely be a pain in the ass. Not because they present an actual challenge, but because they completely kill the pace of the game. Just like a trickle of rocketeers does. We don't mind breaks between fights, but no-one enjoys waiting around for a weak one-shot enemy to come out so you can kill it and progress. It's about how the fights are designed and the enemies are used, more than about the enemies themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Sam(BG) View Post
What is "Poor enemy design" anyway? Doesn't like the outfit? The look of the new enemies? No, it's all the attacks and behavior. All of you, crybabies, want it more easy, more predictible, more easy to avoid.
Quite the contrary. We want it more balanced. And a fair chance to fight our enemies. An unavoidable attack is not balanced. It's just an HP drain.
Sure, hiding from enemy fire and using cover is a skill, but SS was never a cover based game like e.g. Gears of War. Nor was it a military shooter like CoD, MoH or CS. And it doesn't have the game mechanics to implement enemies that push the player towards such a play style. It doesn't have an actual cover system. You can't "hide" from enemies - they always know where you are. You can't hide behind a wall and throw a grenade around the corner. Enemies will not wait around the corner for you, they'll rush you at all times.
It's not about poor enemy design, it's about the enemy design fitting the game play style.

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What's next? "Hey, CroTeam, why not make the enemies in Serious Sam 5 spawn directly in front of my crosshair, because the game is too hard with this free look mode..."
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