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Old 05-11-2016, 02:08 PM   #1   Add To Ignore List  
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Default A puzzle about placing enemies for their maximum efficiency in the game.

There are 26 enemies with enemy composition listed on this picture. You have to put them on the field
with designated amounts (20 in large area, 6 in small area).

https://i.sli.mg/H76cna.png

The enemies spawn simultaneously and the area is flat with no obstacles.
You can position the enemies anywhere on those spots but again, with constraints shown there.

The question is: what enemy formation will be the most dangerous to Sam and what enemy formations will be the least dangerous for Sam? (We assume that Sam has already acquired most of the weapons but not the cannon).
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Old 05-11-2016, 02:14 PM   #2   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A puzzle about placing enemies for their maximum efficiency in the game.

Hah! Now this is interesting! I'm curious about the answers.
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Old 05-11-2016, 02:45 PM   #3   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A puzzle about placing enemies for their maximum efficiency in the game.

I doubt it would make much of a difference in this case to be honest
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Old 05-11-2016, 02:55 PM   #4   Add To Ignore List  
 
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Default Re: A puzzle about placing enemies for their maximum efficiency in the game.

There are lots of missing information:

Are the edges of picture walls?
What are the distances between Sam and spawn zones?
What is the difficulty? (This might be unnecessary, if you want a breakdown for each difficulty.)
What is the field of view for Sam?
Is Sam facing backwards? Hence there is no information on view directions.
How much ammo does he have for each important gun?
Is the area fullbright with no unnecessary effects to the cause?
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Old 05-11-2016, 03:05 PM   #5   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A puzzle about placing enemies for their maximum efficiency in the game.

Edges are the ends of the area.
The area is about the size of the final arena of Metropolis.
Difficulty: Normal.
FOV: 100.
Sam is facing the larger group.
Ammo is full.
It's a vanilla room with no effects.
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Old 05-11-2016, 03:17 PM   #6   Add To Ignore List  
 
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Default Re: A puzzle about placing enemies for their maximum efficiency in the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by God Of Gaming View Post
I doubt it would make much of a difference in this case to be honest
This.

There isn't an answer to the question, you can't sort bunch of zeroes in ascending or descending order (average damage taken) which are results for every permutation.
Why? Because minigun is a thing.
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Old 05-11-2016, 03:42 PM   #7   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A puzzle about placing enemies for their maximum efficiency in the game.

https://i.sli.mg/iYIPCs.png

Is this configuration good or can it be improved?
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Old 05-11-2016, 03:52 PM   #8   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A puzzle about placing enemies for their maximum efficiency in the game.

it's good that you're trying to make the placements look pretty, but the fact of the matter is, once you've decided exactly which enemy types, how many of each, spawning order (in this case all at once) and the general areas that they're gonna spawn, the battle will go through more or less the same no matter where exactly you place them in those general areas.
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:43 PM   #9   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A puzzle about placing enemies for their maximum efficiency in the game.

Actually no.

In my previous solution, I made sure that kamikazes were protected by gnaar and kleer meatshields and be as spread out as possible to make aiming more difficult. The same could be said to the biomechs which attack from 2 directions. Meanwhile common aldran reptiloid is as far at the back as possible and Sam has to maneuver a bit to get one of the biomechs out of the way first.



https://i.sli.mg/ZWJa6H.png

Here you can see a configuration where Sam's job is significantly easier.

Kamikazes are tightly grouped together so it's easier to make chain reaction. Reptiloid is also in the front, leaving it more vulnerable. Most kleers and both biomechs are in the line, reducing their effectiveness. Finally gnaars (low priority targets) are far away although a single kleer skeleton is with them.
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Old 05-11-2016, 11:49 PM   #10   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A puzzle about placing enemies for their maximum efficiency in the game.

Things get more challenging when you ammo starve the better weapons (minigun, laser, rocket, cannon). When low on those even weaker enemies can be a challenge.

How about... a wave of kamikazes (from all directions), followed by curcurbitos, several reptiloids and demon reptiloids in the background, a mixture of kleers and harpies, with werebulls and arachnoids (from height) spawning all over the map, a wave of firecrackers, bombers, and zorg commanders, followed by werebulls from the front, another wave of kleers with zumbul support, 3 biomech majors, 5 biomech minors, many small groups of kamikazes ([from all directions] not clumped together for the easy kill), curcurbitos, tho large lava golems, and a reptiloid bride to top it off?

Just saying. Instead of spawning masses of things in two specific spots you should have many things come from all directions for a moderate length battle but a very intense one.

Last edited by Louva-Deus; 05-11-2016 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 05-12-2016, 12:03 AM   #11   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A puzzle about placing enemies for their maximum efficiency in the game.

Umm...that'wouldn't be a puzzle anymore.
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Old 05-12-2016, 02:44 AM   #12   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A puzzle about placing enemies for their maximum efficiency in the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Louva-Deus View Post
Things get more challenging when you ammo starve the better weapons (minigun, laser, rocket, cannon). When low on those even weaker enemies can be a challenge.
This appears to be the Sam HD DLC philosophy, so no..
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Old 05-12-2016, 05:10 AM   #13   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A puzzle about placing enemies for their maximum efficiency in the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Louva-Deus View Post
Things get more challenging when you ammo starve the better weapons (minigun, laser, rocket, cannon). When low on those even weaker enemies can be a challenge.
A challenge doesn't automatically mean fun. Starving the player for anything is just as bad as giving too much. Like Angelo said, the LotB DLC had pretty shoddy gameplay with the scarce ammo, and I didn't enjoy it like I could. Serious Sam is about allowing mistakes and not forcing the player to save-scum to survive.
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Old 05-12-2016, 07:30 AM   #14   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A puzzle about placing enemies for their maximum efficiency in the game.

How to make the game and level design as such as you know exactly how much ammo you can use safely?
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Old 05-12-2016, 08:11 AM   #15   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A puzzle about placing enemies for their maximum efficiency in the game.

You can't. Only through a long testing period with people of varied skill would give you information that might be close to the ideal setting.
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Old 05-13-2016, 05:15 AM   #16   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A puzzle about placing enemies for their maximum efficiency in the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artman40 View Post
How to make the game and level design as such as you know exactly how much ammo you can use safely?
A general rule for me is to test every fight I make on normal difficulty with 40% ammo, 70-80 health and 10-20 armor. If I can do that it's very playable for others 90% of the time. Otherwise I just keep tweaking and tweaking.
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Old 05-13-2016, 06:44 AM   #17   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A puzzle about placing enemies for their maximum efficiency in the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Discy View Post
A general rule for me is to test every fight I make on normal difficulty with 40% ammo, 70-80 health and 10-20 armor. If I can do that it's very playable for others 90% of the time. Otherwise I just keep tweaking and tweaking.
That's a pretty good rule of thumb. In the end it's all about testing all the possibilities and seeing what works best.
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Old 05-13-2016, 06:51 AM   #18   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A puzzle about placing enemies for their maximum efficiency in the game.

It's also very important to have testers who have different play styles. If all the testers play the same way then you don't have a complete picture. For example, I prefer in-your-face crowd control and evasion while staying in the middle of a fight, and I have Fiendian test all of my stuff. He prefers a much more cautious approach, funneling enemies, fighting from a distance and even exploiting the at times dumb AI. Both of us cover the extreme ends of playing, so both of us testing the same thing is very comprehensive.
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