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Serious Sam 4 The place to talk about Croteam's next title: Serious Sam 4! What do you know? What do you hope to see in the next Sam game?

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Old 10-13-2015, 06:51 PM   #1   Add To Ignore List  
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Question Unlockables

This has been a weak point in the series, There has been absolutely no motivation to do anything particularly special in game besides achievements.

Achievements are nice and all, But there's really no sense of reward with them.

Things such as,
*Weapon Skins
*Player Models
*Player Model Skins
*Cosmetic Items
Could be unlocked by doing hard accomplishments.

It would give the multiplayer more replay-ability, Or give a Player more motivation to clear the game on Serious and Mental Difficulties.

Last edited by Swerving; 10-13-2015 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 10-14-2015, 04:06 AM   #2   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

Yes, but not too much of them
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Old 10-14-2015, 04:15 AM   #3   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

From posts I've seen on S! Lately I doubt the reaction will be positive to such a thing. I'm all for it.!
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Old 10-14-2015, 04:56 AM   #4   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockables

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swerving View Post
This has been a weak point in the series, There has been absolutely no motivation to do anything particularly special in game besides achievements.

Achievements are nice and all, But there's really no sense of reward with them.

Things such as,
*Weapon Skins
*Player Models
*Player Model Skins
*Cosmetic Items
Could be unlocked by doing hard accomplishments.


It would give the multiplayer more replay-ability, Or give a Player more motivation to clear the game on Serious and Mental Difficulties.
You mean Rodolfo the Christmas model you had to unlock through a series of tedious decorating events where you had to scope out certain enemies or find Christmas packages to spawn them, melee them and toss their body parts into the Christmas tree within a certain period of time once a year?

Loved it. Not even being sarcastic right now.
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Old 10-14-2015, 05:54 AM   #5   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

I personally support this idea, and was one of the first things I suggested to CT when I was hired. Can't say that if it will be made true, but it is something I really think would better the multiplayer aspect. Glad not I'm the only one thinking it!

I even suggested a sort of progression system like in modern multiplayer games, but instead of locking actual weapons and mechanics under this system, only weapon and player skins and other cosmetics would be locked by it. Like, I dunno, a SS1 Alpha Tommygun skin for the AR. Or hats!
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Old 10-14-2015, 06:16 AM   #6   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

I don't like unlocking weapons but mere skins are alright.
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Old 10-14-2015, 07:25 AM   #7   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pan View Post
From posts I've seen on S! Lately I doubt the reaction will be positive to such a thing. I'm all for it.!
Wow you must've missed everyone begging for some official way to unlock the "Serious-8" DLC
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Old 10-14-2015, 08:15 AM   #8   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

I'm very skeptical about that. This thing could either improve or ruin the game. You know, just one wrong step... This trend is also present in almost every fucking game nowadays. Does SS really need that kind of stuff? I'm not sure.
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Old 10-14-2015, 09:16 AM   #9   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

I am also fully in for this idea, sounds awesome to unlock nice skins for weapons and player models.
For example a neon skin or a 90 sci fi skin would be cool
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Old 10-14-2015, 09:53 AM   #10   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

I certainly wouldn't mind. Would be awesome to unlock something for achievements you've worked hard for, getting a player model for completing the whole game in one coin op marathon run on serious with extra enemy strenght for instance. Weapon skins? I'm all for that too.

Sorta wish these unlocks worked with the moddable mode too though. After I was done playing SS3/SSHD singleplayer and cooperative a few times, I've only ever played the games in moddable mode since then. Croteam should incorporate mods better into the game somehow, so that it doesn't mean you absolutely have to run it modded just to run a custom map for instance, or to use a custom player model, and legit mods (not cheats) shouldn't prevent you from doing achievements imo.

Last edited by Finzy; 10-14-2015 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 10-14-2015, 11:10 AM   #11   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

*Player Models - Cool

*Player Model Skins - Well if it won´t have problems with any team mode, sure why not ?

*Cosmetic Items - Your multiplayer model would be more unique.I like that.

*Weapon Skins - I´m not sure. I think the whole models would be better if it´s possible. Just imagine weapon pack from SSHD or from SS2 or from BFE unlockable maybe from owning previous games, finding secrets or completing game on Mental difficulty.

I hope if it happenes it would be unlockable by actions in the game not unlockable by money like in CS:Global offensive or Team fortress 2.Weapon skin for 100€? That's ridiculous you can spend more money on skins than the game itself.

But i like the unlockable items idea.
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Last edited by Kenny_MCII; 10-14-2015 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 10-14-2015, 01:43 PM   #12   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finzy View Post
Sorta wish these unlocks worked with the moddable mode too though. After I was done playing SS3/SSHD singleplayer and cooperative a few times, I've only ever played the games in moddable mode since then. Croteam should incorporate mods better into the game somehow, so that it doesn't mean you absolutely have to run it modded just to run a custom map for instance, or to use a custom player model, and legit mods (not cheats) shouldn't prevent you from doing achievements imo.
Talos already works like that if you have any fan made stuff that doesn't modify the base game, it works without starting modded mode.

Kenny: When we talk weapon skins, we also mean models.
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Old 10-14-2015, 02:13 PM   #13   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solais View Post

Kenny: When we talk weapon skins, we also mean models.
Awesome!
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Old 10-14-2015, 02:18 PM   #14   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

As much as I like the idea, I'd prefer they focus on the actual gameplay. That said, I understand that as things approach the release, a lot of the art assets will be complete, and I could understand the artists creating skins in their spare time.
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Old 10-14-2015, 02:50 PM   #15   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetroid View Post
As much as I like the idea, I'd prefer they focus on the actual gameplay.
Yep Serious Sam without gameplay would probably suck .
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Old 10-14-2015, 06:11 PM   #16   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetroid View Post
As much as I like the idea, I'd prefer they focus on the actual gameplay. That said, I understand that as things approach the release, a lot of the art assets will be complete, and I could understand the artists creating skins in their spare time.
They wouldn't prioritize extras over the real meat of the game, That would be just silly, Like you said things like these would be handled after the campaign assets are mostly complete, Nothing is stopping them from patching them in post-release either.

Croteam usually makes a bunch of new player models each game anyways, Those could locked behind achievements, They could also accept community-made assets to be used for such things as well.

Last edited by Swerving; 10-14-2015 at 06:14 PM.
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Old 10-14-2015, 06:13 PM   #17   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

If you think about the depth of some of the unlockable systems in some games (Look at Team Fortress, or Call of Duty), you will notice that those took considerable time to implement, even before the art is created. I'd just be concerned that it's a lot of effort for little real return, especially for a relatively small company.
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Old 10-14-2015, 06:35 PM   #18   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetroid View Post
If you think about the depth of some of the unlockable systems in some games (Look at Team Fortress, or Call of Duty), you will notice that those took considerable time to implement, even before the art is created. I'd just be concerned that it's a lot of effort for little real return, especially for a relatively small company.
Both those systems are way more complex than anything suggested here.

Serious Sam 3, Unlocked by steam achievements.

Team fortress 2, Random Drops, Inventory, Crafting, Gameplay Altering Items, Hats and Load-Out Servers, There were also multiple classes to worry about.

Call of Duty, Complex multiplayer ranking system, Gameplay altering items and Load-Out Servers, The development of those games are also extremely rushed.

Last edited by Swerving; 10-14-2015 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 10-14-2015, 06:52 PM   #19   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

It's true, those are a lot more complex from the unlocking perspective (ie: trading, crafting, levelling, etc). I was merely pointing out that unlock systems 'done well', to speak, take a long time to implement.

That said, even in the initial release of items for Team Fortress, (which were unlocked by Achievements), the system was still very complex.

I want to point out that once you include unlocks, then you must have a persistent player loadout that follows the player across computers, and which has anti-cheat mechanisms to prevent players from giving themselves everything (a problem in games like PAYDAY 2 where your progress is stored locally). You must understand that this is non-trivial to implement and requires a quite sophisticated backend.
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Old 10-15-2015, 07:09 AM   #20   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny_MCII View Post
Yep Serious Sam without gameplay would probably suck .
A game without gameplay is not a game
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Old 10-15-2015, 08:20 AM   #21   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

Doesn't stop people calling Dear Esther a game.
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Old 10-15-2015, 09:48 AM   #22   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

A "masterpiece" called CrazyBus had "best gameplay of all time" and it´s still called a game by people.
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Old 10-15-2015, 12:02 PM   #23   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetroid View Post
I want to point out that once you include unlocks, then you must have a persistent player loadout that follows the player across computers, and which has anti-cheat mechanisms to prevent players from giving themselves everything (a problem in games like PAYDAY 2 where your progress is stored locally). You must understand that this is non-trivial to implement and requires a quite sophisticated backend.
The current system is good enough, Persistent Loadouts would already be done with the saves transferred though Steam-Cloud.

Most that could be done would be to have the game scan your achievements, So when the save is manipulated with items that don't match up, It would reset your loadout items to the defaults and lock everything not earned.

But even that would be bypassed by how insecure Steam achievements are, Not much can be done about this, Server-Side achievements are used only for MMO's.

The only alternative would be to for the developer to handle everything themselves, Going server-side would be more of hassle and costly than its worth, Since that would likely require some form of always-online DRM enforcing whether or not what being done is legitimate, Plus the servers to store the users data as well.

If someone wants to ruin their own fun by cheating the unlockables, That's their own problem, Its a non-issue unless there's some economy and balance to maintain, The balance isn't going to be upset by someone cheating Playermodels or Skins.
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Old 10-15-2015, 08:16 PM   #24   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

I think what would make more sense for the franchise... and would actually compliment the gameplay in many ways, is a scavenging system. Instead of Sam finding well-placed weapons in the game, you should be able to pick up weapons from fallen allies and enemies and use them. It even solves the problem of wondering where in the world did a rocket launcher come from in Ancient Egypt?

Just a thought.

Maybe you could give Sam an energy powered shield (non-regenerating) as well and you could scavenge power nodes from different corpses and devices around the level.
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Old 10-15-2015, 09:25 PM   #25   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

Hmmm, sounds like duke nukem forever.
And maybe we could have ammo limitations, so you could only use a weapon for half a minute, then have to pick up another weapon.
And then we could have a 2 weapon limit.
Oooh, and regenerating health!
And cover based combat!!!!



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Old 10-15-2015, 11:57 PM   #26   Add To Ignore List  
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In your case it would simply reverse the direction the weapon is pointing.
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Old 10-16-2015, 03:45 AM   #27   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

I like the idea of Sam temporarily using enemy weapons, but I don't like his primary weapons being composed of those. I think it would be cooler if you pick up an enemy weapon and can keep firing it til-it-goes-click before resuming with your regular weapons.
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Old 10-16-2015, 10:28 AM   #28   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

Quote:
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It even solves the problem of wondering where in the world did a rocket launcher come from in Ancient Egypt?
Well technically, that is already explained in the story...remember?
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Old 10-16-2015, 11:12 AM   #29   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

At this point I'm not sure more than three people remember.
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Old 10-16-2015, 11:20 AM   #30   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Unlockable Items

Especially because the SS3 retcon makes the presence of the weapons a plothole.
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