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Serious Sam 4 The place to talk about Croteam's next title: Serious Sam 4! What do you know? What do you hope to see in the next Sam game?

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Old 01-30-2016, 01:50 PM   #31   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

Well, they wanted to insert puzzles...
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Old 01-30-2016, 01:51 PM   #32   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

FUCK YEAH! PUZZLES!
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Old 01-30-2016, 02:12 PM   #33   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

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A Serious Sam game with a genuinely well written story?

Could it be true?
Pretty much. I'd say this is a logical evolution of the series. While gameplay-wise SS was always more or less successful and held the trademark, the storyline was one of the undeveloped parts, and I hope it'll be finally fixed this time. I think SS3 did a good job in delivering a bit more of the story to prepare the fan-base for more detailed and advanced plotline in the next games.
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Old 01-30-2016, 02:55 PM   #34   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

Story in SS3 was something you would write while you are sitting on the toilet.
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Old 01-30-2016, 03:14 PM   #35   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

No shit sherlock, yet it was delivered much more prominent and smooth in comparison to previous games, and there were a bit more storytelling ways than just plain walls of texts.
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Old 01-30-2016, 06:27 PM   #36   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

I enjoyed reading those walls of text in SS1 much more than any of the cut scenes in SS3. It was all just too mediocre for a company that was in business for over 10 years then.

Plus the cut scenes would just take you out of the action. Scorpion appears for the first time; let's make a cutscene, Biomech appears...stop...add an unnecessary cutscene. That underground alien generator needs to be turned on...cutscene... NO !! LET ME PRESS THE DAMN BUTTON !! Didn't Half Life teach us long ago how to handle all this without taking the control from the player ?
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Old 01-30-2016, 07:16 PM   #37   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

Actually, the scorpion doesn't appear in a cutscene.
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Old 01-30-2016, 10:52 PM   #38   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

The cutscenes aren't a problem because you can literally skip them as soon as they start. If you hit the fire key as soon as a cutscene starts, you shouldn't be out of the action for more than a half-second or so.
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Old 01-30-2016, 11:01 PM   #39   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

The most instantaneous disturbance can kill immersion. I'm not saying SS3 is that "immersive", but still. This is why people take issue to screen tearing and other minor and brief annoyances.
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Old 01-31-2016, 05:25 AM   #40   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

Actually, I liked that feature in SS3 that made you to automatically look towards a direction. Could have used more to introduce enemies, instead of cutscenes. HOWEVER, I do like enemy introductions, instead of them just randomly appearing. So probably a combination of the two.
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Old 01-31-2016, 05:46 AM   #41   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

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Actually, I liked that feature in SS3 that made you to automatically look towards a direction. Could have used more to introduce enemies, instead of cutscenes. HOWEVER, I do like enemy introductions, instead of them just randomly appearing. So probably a combination of the two.
I like cutscenes more than the automatic point focus feature. In fact, I hate 'em. Cutscenes take effort to make and can be skipped, but there's literally no way to prevent your screen from being yanked to a direction for a while. If I want to look at a crashed helicopter, a collapsing building or something else like that I don't need the game to push my face in that direction like I'm some sort of retard.
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Old 01-31-2016, 06:16 AM   #42   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

Yeah, I also agree to that being a problem, it must be more subtler. A thing in Half-Life, especially HL2, that it uses lighting and other assets to slowly "lead" people looking at important stuff by themselves. That "buildup" should be replicated in Sam games as well. And only have cutscenes at the end of the level, or maybe when introducing an important boss (not regular-enemy bosses).
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Old 01-31-2016, 08:52 AM   #43   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

Half Life 2 utilizes a player watch entity. If a player looks at it, then it triggers a certain event. That can be very useful in scripted event building to make sure the player doesn't miss it.
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Old 01-31-2016, 08:53 AM   #44   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

It's sad when automatic point focus is required :I
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Old 01-31-2016, 09:09 AM   #45   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

I wonder if current SE got such a player watch entity as well. Or if it's possible to add one.
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Old 01-31-2016, 09:15 AM   #46   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

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Half Life 2 utilizes a player watch entity. If a player looks at it, then it triggers a certain event. That can be very useful in scripted event building to make sure the player doesn't miss it.
I still remember that moment in Episode 2 when you first see that tripod enemy looking at you from that building in the woods. That sense of presence and being watched... uhhh, that was great.

It seems Scorpion really didn't have a cutscene, but I remember many of them had, which I didn't like. Just like Solais, I like enemy introductions, but there is no need for cutscenes then. They should just make some scripted event(like that scorpion climbing over wall) that would trigger my interest and let me watch it how I want.

Oh, I just remembered how at the beginning they also showed a Khnum walking down the street. That is what I like, no need for a cutscene, or camera focus, you heard it walk by and you went to see what it is. I guess in the early parts they did it right, and later went overboard with the cutscenes a bit.

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Old 01-31-2016, 12:00 PM   #47   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

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Are you the only one, who still doesn't know that officially CroTeam said that Serious Sam 2 is non-canon and so it is not conected with the other games from the series? Something like spin-off.

So stop with "Ouh where is Serious Sam 2 in the whole picture". It's outsider. It's non-canon.

And stop asking this everywhere over the net.
Source please!
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Old 01-31-2016, 03:50 PM   #48   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_%28game_engine%29
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Old 01-31-2016, 06:59 PM   #49   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

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Old 01-31-2016, 07:18 PM   #50   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

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I still remember that moment in Episode 2 when you first see that tripod enemy looking at you from that building in the woods. That sense of presence and being watched... uhhh, that was great.

It seems Scorpion really didn't have a cutscene, but I remember many of them had, which I didn't like. Just like Solais, I like enemy introductions, but there is no need for cutscenes then. They should just make some scripted event(like that scorpion climbing over wall) that would trigger my interest and let me watch it how I want.

Oh, I just remembered how at the beginning they also showed a Khnum walking down the street. That is what I like, no need for a cutscene, or camera focus, you heard it walk by and you went to see what it is. I guess in the early parts they did it right, and later went overboard with the cutscenes a bit.
The Adult Arachnoid's opening wouldn't work with the other enemy intros because of where the other enemies are positioned. The Red Biomech enters from one side of a large square arena, while the Scrapjack appears on the other side of a long arena. The cutscenes say "Hey, here's a big monster coming in! Get ready!" for the player, no matter what part of the arena the player is in, while the Scrapjack intro tells the player "There's a new enemy on the other side of the arena you spawned in. Be careful!". You'd have to move enemies around in order to make Adult Arachnoid-style intros work.
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Old 01-31-2016, 07:44 PM   #51   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

I personally do not think that the game needs to hold the player's hand and show him exactly where an enemy is with a close-up camera pan. Seeing a huge boss appear in the corner of your eye might be a rather exhilarating experience. And it's not like you'll have no idea where the boss is because you have your sense of hearing.
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Old 01-31-2016, 08:12 PM   #52   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

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I personally do not think that the game needs to hold the player's hand and show him exactly where an enemy is with a close-up camera pan. Seeing a huge boss appear in the corner of your eye might be a rather exhilarating experience. And it's not like you'll have no idea where the boss is because you have your sense of hearing.
You have to understand that game players are, on a whole, pretty dumb. You and I may think it's tense challenging to get attacked by a new enemy out of nowhere, but there are people that will get pissed off by it. Pointing them out significant threats when they appear for the first time is an anti-frustration measure based on how new enemies are positioned.
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Old 01-31-2016, 08:18 PM   #53   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

I like the introduction of enemies like the Kamikazi.
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Old 01-31-2016, 08:28 PM   #54   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

You also have to note that the Biomech introduction was also related to the plot, not just a simple enemy intro.
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Old 02-01-2016, 12:10 AM   #55   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

Just show the chopper getting shot down in real-time, it's that simple.
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Old 02-01-2016, 02:20 AM   #56   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

I agree with LordAngus, I'd rather go for the surprise reveal than a cutscene announcing something big is about to happen. Imagine the Highlander in Valley of the Kings in First Encounter having an intro cutscene, it would lose a lot of impact. The way they just dropped in a giant version of the a previously normal sized enemy without announcement just made it very exciting for me. This goes for any oversized monster in the classics: Big Lava Golem, Highlander's Bride, giant Lava Golem.

I do get Squadala's point about the average player being dumb and easily frustrated, but I don't agree with holding the player's hand while pointing out that a big 'un is about to appear. Especially because Serious Sam never did this before.
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Old 02-01-2016, 04:02 AM   #57   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

Yeah, though statistics do show that most people get frustrated with the game and never finish it, both with TFE and SS3. TSE seems to have the highest percentage of completion rate for some reason, and that game got some "cutscene enemy intros" as well (for the three bosses, or the big arachnoid when you get the sniper).

And I personally think that the Highlander reveal in TFE was pretty bad. Was one of the things I wanted to change in SSHDX, but couldn't find a good solution that works with the level layout. Then again, in general I really don't like enemies being spawned in, instead I usually go with enemies "running in" the scene, or using some sort of intro animation (like in SS3); only using spawning when -really- necessary.
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Old 02-01-2016, 05:33 AM   #58   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Croteam interview reveals some new Serious Sam 4 details

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I enjoyed reading those walls of text in SS1 much more than any of the cut scenes in SS3.
I loved reading texts too. In fact, I'm very frustrated that Netricsa was so dumbed down in SS3. But let's face it - reading lots of readme.txt-s throughout the game isn't really a good way to submit the story. It can be good for lore, but not for the general plotline. This is why people still think that SS games are just brainless and stupid and had no real story up until SS3 - because it was all in the texts which people simply skip 'cause players are lazy and think it could "break up the experience and immersion" almost the same way as cut-scenes.

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Didn't Half Life teach us long ago how to handle all this without taking the control from the player ?
Except Serious Sam is not Half-Life, but the opposite. The way presented in HL games may not work at all in SS, while generally HL's scripted sequences are not that different from the traditional cut-scenes when it comes to revealing the major plotline events, 'cept there are always other NPC's that will hold your hand and load you with mediocre monologues. Honestly, I personally think that some of these "revolutionary" HL narrative design ways are simply overrated (but not all).

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You have to understand that game players are, on a whole, pretty dumb. You and I may think it's tense challenging to get attacked by a new enemy out of nowhere, but there are people that will get pissed off by it. Pointing them out significant threats when they appear for the first time is an anti-frustration measure based on how new enemies are positioned.
Now that's what I'm totally agree with.

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I agree with LordAngus, I'd rather go for the surprise reveal than a cutscene announcing something big is about to happen. Imagine the Highlander in Valley of the Kings in First Encounter having an intro cutscene, it would lose a lot of impact.
Well, I'd not say it's a good example. Highlander was very noticable just because the thing was... fucking big, that's why it was cool. But it won't work with smaller enemies at all.

Quote:
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I do get Squadala's point about the average player being dumb and easily frustrated, but I don't agree with holding the player's hand while pointing out that a big 'un is about to appear. Especially because Serious Sam never did this before.
I think Croteam could've used more interactivity to reveal something like new enemies or short sequences. Netricsa, for example. Something like SS3 with its digital mini-maps, but more natural. I liked the way it was done in SS2000 (the alpha one): when you come to some closed door, a small window appears on the right upper side of the screen showing the location of the key. That could work well when devs need to point a closer focus at something without long cut-scenes.
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Old 02-01-2016, 06:38 AM   #59   Add To Ignore List  
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Yeah, though statistics do show that most people get frustrated with the game and never finish it, both with TFE and SS3.
This is with most games though, not just Serious Sam
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Old 02-01-2016, 07:09 AM   #60   Add To Ignore List  
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Sure, but it is kind of a problem, because that means a loss of potential sales for the next game. There are some games out there that have at least a 50% completion rate.
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