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Old 10-31-2012, 12:11 PM   #1   Add To Ignore List  
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Cool The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

I haven't posted on here for quite a while... Anyway, I have finally aquired SS3 for the xbox 360, and I have nearly finished it. (Took em' long enough to release it... -_-) Hooray! I would really like it if Croteam didn't update their game engine for the next Sam game (I'm talking about a major update here...), here are some reasons why:

1. If Croteam do not update the engine, they will be able to focus more on the game's development. This is important because, according to me, the next Sam game needs something new (Alternate ammo types, alternate fire modes, different types of enviroments, and by that I mean something like the different types of planets from the TFE beta.).

2. The Serious Engine is awesome enough already. (Well at least I think so.)

3. It should make porting the next Sam game to the xbox 360 much quicker, since the Serious Engine 3.5 has already been ported to the console. (Time to hope that I don't get some PC elitist screaming in my face about how the xbox doesn't matter...)
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:12 PM   #2   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

Mog, <insert PC master race comment here>!

Nah, but seriously, I agree. The engine is beautiful, the only real change they should do is maybe work on is whacky-physics support, hehe.

I guess some minor tweaks will have to be made over the next years, but the engine should be solid for a long time now.
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:44 PM   #3   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

The vehicle system could be fixed, and implementing a cloth system maybe? (like those Mental banners we saw in the summer trailer) Asides from that, yeah, I agree too, looks pretty solid to me.
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:04 PM   #4   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

The engine is really showing the 360's age though. Play SS:BFE on the 360 split-screen and you will see what I mean. The console just can't handle the solid graphics in split-screen, the game looks like it's 10 years old.

It makes me give mad props to Bungie for making Halo 3 split-screen as beautiful as it is, truly some voodoo magic there.
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Old 10-31-2012, 04:06 PM   #5   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

Yeah, I agree, SS3 split screen on the xbox is not good at all (I'm surprised they even added it...). However, most things seem to look just as good on xbox as on pc in single plater, and online co-op. Exept for maybe the levels of detail are different... Like some object dissapear once you get a certain distance away from them, and I'm sure this happens on PC aswell, just only when you're further away... And anyway, It's hardly noticable, unless you look for these things.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:16 PM   #6   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

SE 2 HD BFM will be in a new enigne se 4, will be something like a modernistic sam 2 with sam 2 weapons and enemies, mostly replaced by sam hd weapons and enemies + some more!
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:24 PM   #7   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thekazuya0.60 View Post
SE 2 HD BFM will be in a new enigne se 4, will be something like a modernistic sam 2 with sam 2 weapons and enemies, mostly replaced by sam hd weapons and enemies + some more!
We don't know yet if it even comes
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:28 PM   #8   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

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Originally Posted by Devostator View Post
We don't know yet if it even comes
it will most likely come!
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:51 PM   #9   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

It is in pre-planning phase, meaning it will be many years before they will start doing it.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:58 PM   #10   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

About the no new engine update. Well I somehow agree here but somehow not too.
Agree:
The engine already is so good and fluid that it really doesn't need any update.
Disagree:
If it wouldn't be updated anymore the game would look ugly when the year 2018 comes(I am not a graphic freak )
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Old 10-31-2012, 06:02 PM   #11   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

@Kazuya: I don't know where you got that information, but okay.
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Last edited by Mongo; 10-31-2012 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 10-31-2012, 06:09 PM   #12   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

Well, i think we will have next SS game in Serious Engine 4, cause until its released we may have 1 new console (Xbox 3/720).

Btw, íf Xbox360 with 512 MB Ram can handle Serious Engine 3.5 thats amazing.

How do you get the infos about SE 2 HD BFM ?

If you still have that infos than Michael Pachter can retire.

I want a Beta of The Crossing from the Arcane Studios.
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Old 10-31-2012, 07:27 PM   #13   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

Even with a new console, the current Serious Engine tech would be fine. And dear god if we wait another 4-5 years because of a new engine... which is totally unneeded.... *censored message*

Eh, Croteam doesn't need to upgrade at this point. I think they should create a new game. Something very interesting and different. A revival of an old genre perhaps.
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Old 10-31-2012, 07:34 PM   #14   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
A revival of an old genre perhaps.
The only thing that comes in mind is: Space combat simulator!!!!
Quote:
From wikipedia:
Space flight simulators, at one time popular, have for most of the new millennium been considered a "dead" genre

Last edited by Devostator; 10-31-2012 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:17 AM   #15   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

SS2: BFM info was told to everyone by Roman on Croteam's Facebook page. Again, it is said that they have plans for that, but its realization will be quite far away now.
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:51 AM   #16   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

Engines always need updates. Every new title so far has updated the engine and I expect it to stay that way.

Major things SE 3(.5) needs right now is better multicore utilization; as far as I know it can only take advantage of single core 100% and 50% second at best, while triple or quad cores go completely unused, and even the second core could be utilized better. Support for vehicles needs to come back even if just from a modding perspective, it was there with SS2.

It should also have support for DX11/DX10, it makes sense to have it at this point for improved performance, tesselation and whatnot. Since the engine can already switch between OpenGL and D3D, I don't think it would be impossible to implement a switch between different DX versions as well.

Agree about the physics, for all the "destructive environments" and cloth physics hyped before the release, the environments in SS3 feel very static and mostly rely on premade destruction schemes already seen in SS2 rather than anything physics acclerated. Heck, none of the boxes or the trash in the game can even be moved. I haven't seen any noticeable cloth physics in the game either, so it is my belief that there isn't any.

Netcode could use improvements as well, there's client side prediction so it's better than the past games since SSHD:TSE, but it still feels like it gets easily laggy at higher pings, and there is a lot of warping whenever players cross steep hills and such, even at playable pings. Also some tools behave weirdly in multiplayer, I've seen several bouncers react entirely differently when played online, even if you're hosting.

Engine updates aren't all about better graphics you know...performance and overall flexibility is what matters imo.

Last edited by Finzy; 11-01-2012 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:21 AM   #17   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

Imo, it would be awesome if from now on, there would be a base game/engine released on Steam (maybe with multiplayer), and every major game would be released as a DLC for it, while the engine is also patched. With this, every game would be compatible with each other, and there wouldn't be things like what happened with those people who are still playing TFE HD, even with Fusion.
There wouldn't be "dead games", and there would be only one multiplayer game, instead of trying to sell the same gamemodes over and over in the next game. So an extensive multiplayer community could emerge on the F2P Multiplayer "base" game and everyone else could buy the new games for this "base" as DLC, while the modders would be happy in getting new content without making their own old stuff obsolete because of the previous game dying.

Maybe they could even monetize the Base Game Multiplayer, with non-power items like new character models, weapon skins or even hats.
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:28 PM   #18   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

I don't think calling it DLC is quite right, more like major expansion packs...

Also, not hats, melee weapons! It really has potential. Or heck, you could mix it up and have both.

@Finzy: Yea, but those things can be added to the current engine. It would be more of a Serious Engine v3.6 to v3.9, not a v4.x something. I don't have any clue as to how the engine is designed, but I'm guessing such improvements can be added?...
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:52 PM   #19   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

Yes, the engine could use some updates and additions on features, but as Vasile just, an entirely new engine isn't necessary for them...
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Old 11-01-2012, 01:00 PM   #20   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

The vehicular aspects of the current build could really do with some looking at...
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Old 11-01-2012, 01:09 PM   #21   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
Yes, the engine could use some updates and additions on features, but as Vasile just, an entirely new engine isn't necessary for them...
As far as I know SE3.0 was built from SE2.0, they didn't start from scratch.
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:05 PM   #22   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

Yes it was, they haven't started from "scratch" since they made Serious Sam 2.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:00 PM   #23   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

Yay! No "Xbox suks, and PC rulez!" comments so far.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:11 PM   #24   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

Well, if you really want some, then here some reasonable one: The X360 is an 8 years old tech and due to its technical limitations, SS3 looks the way it looks on that console. Sorry, but PC tech is just outright better than the tech under the X360.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:57 PM   #25   Add To Ignore List  
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Cool Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solais View Post
Well, if you really want some, then here some reasonable one: The X360 is an 8 years old tech and due to its technical limitations, SS3 looks the way it looks on that console. Sorry, but PC tech is just outright better than the tech under the X360.
Well, here is my awe-inspiring counter move!

1. The single player, and co-op of SS3 look the same on the xbox as on the PC (To me at least.).

2. By now, the xbox can do a lot of the things the PC can do (Internet, games, movies, radio, TV, social networking, youtube.).

3. Split screen support for the xbox is better than on the PC.

4. Xbox-es are much easier to set up when compared to PCs, and you also do not need Steam to play games on xbox (You need steam for most games on PC nowadays.).

5. You do not need to install games on the xbox, xbox-es generally turn on and off quicker.

6. Xbox 360s are cheaper when compared to a PC that can perform better. Xbox-es around here (The UK.) cost cost about £199 (Completely new.), our PC costed £300 (It was a display copy in a shop, so it was technically used.) and it definetaly cannot play Serious Sam 3, since it can't even play the HD remake of TFE. (Our PC is a laptop by the way.) I suspect that a PC that could play SS3 would cost around £450 (Completely new.) here...

Want any more reasons? :3

Last edited by joattila1; 11-01-2012 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:13 PM   #26   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

@1: Perception is subjective.

@4: Don't you need an XBLA account for multiplayer games on xbox?... Kind of the same thing to me.

But anyway, this is stupid, let's not derail a perfectly good thread with console-pc comparisons that fast.

*is being a hypocrite* I mean seriously, if I didn't want to go off topic for a bit, I wouldn't be replying to those two things now would I?
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:27 PM   #27   Add To Ignore List  
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Post Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

Yes, you do need a xbox live account in some cases... But you don't if you're playing splitscreen, and you play as a guest. And I thought you need a steam account for playing single player games aswell. And trust me, I wish I had a PC good enough to play SS3. I hope the next Sam game has weird gravity, and the different planets idea from the SS1 beta (Or alpha?). Croteam should just do some small updates for the engine.

Last edited by joattila1; 11-01-2012 at 05:34 PM. Reason: Mistake.
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:57 PM   #28   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by joattila1 View Post
3. Split screen support for the xbox is better than on the PC.
I would be curious to see why you think this. I personally see the PC and Xbox 360 as equals in this regard, if we ignore the graphical superiority of SS3 split screen on the PC. Both support 4 players and both can utilize the same controlling schemes (to my knowledge). So what is the difference?

Quote:
6. Xbox 360s are cheaper when compared to a PC that can perform better.
This is common sense. If you want more horsepower and better graphics, you need to pay more. The Xbox 360 is in principle an ancient PC in a compact box, as you said they can perform a lot of the PC's function like internet browsing, media playback, games (duh)...

The price of old PC hardware on a market doesn't scale according to age, but I think you could possibly build a PC with higher specs than the Xbox 360 hardware for less than the Xbox 360 costs, but I could be wrong on this. I'm just throwing this thinking-aloud out there...

However when we talk about stopping engine upgrades in this context, I have to ask; is it really worth artificially stagnating progress just so that the engine can run smoothly on old hardware? On the other hand now would be a pretty good time to put more focus on improving gameplay and level design rather than graphical splendour, seeing as we are getting very close to a sort of plateau. The CoDs have been using a modified Quake 3 engine for a long time and nobody seems to care.

Last edited by Fiendian; 11-01-2012 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 11-02-2012, 03:53 AM   #29   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

Xbox 360 games actually look incredible for being run on a 7 year old system. I'm continually impressed with what developers manage to squeeze out of it. I'm playing Assassin's Creed 3 on my 360 now and it has near next-gen qualities about it. It's easy to cast consoles aside as ancient hardware, but they're still delivering the goods as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:16 AM   #30   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: The engine doesn't need updating! (Atleast I think so. :3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finzy View Post
Yes it was, they haven't started from "scratch" since they made Serious Sam 2.
Oh. I did not know. But still, updating to... 4.0 isn't required to add all of those things. If you get what kind of point I'm trying to put across.

I'd like to see more from serious engine 3.5, there's a lot more it can do I'm sure.
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