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Old 08-10-2012, 09:29 PM   #1   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Serious Sam 3's level flow is based off of Serious Sam: FE's beta level flow

I was chatting with Solais when he came upon something very, very interesting; Serious Sam 3's level flow is very similar to the level flow for the Egypt portion of the Serious Sam 1 beta.

For reference, here's a list of levels that were supposed to be in the Serious Sam 1 beta at one point.

Now, let's compare the two games.

Quote:
Serious Sam 3 starts in Cairo, the capital of modern Egypt. Serious Sam 1 Beta starts in Thebes, the capital of the New Kingdom.

After traveling through the city, Serious Sam 3 Sam enters some old ruins and tombs. In Serious Sam 1 beta, Sam enters the a collection of old tombs.

When he's done with the tombs, Serious Sam 3 Sam travels through Karnak, which is split into multiple levels. In Serious Sam 1 beta, Sam goes through the tombs and travels to Karnak, which is split into multiple levels (Babilon Temple being one of them).

After Karnak, Serious Sam 3 Sam travels to the Temple of Hatsheput to enter the Time Lock. In the Serious Sam 1 beta, Sam enters Hatsheput after going through Karnak.
Sound familiar? The two games share a very similar level flow. The only difference is that the Lost Temple of Nubia and the Last Man on Earth don't fit the old level flow, but they can just be excused as an addition to connect Karnak and Hatsheput plus make the game flow better.

Here's the easy to understand version:

Quote:
Summer in Cairo to Under the Iron Cloud=City_Enter to CityObeliskyard.
The Silent Riddler=King_Valley to Valley_Exit
Unearthing the Sun and The Dark Bride = Karnak_Enter to Babillon_Temple.
Hatsheput = Guardian of Time
So basically, a big part of the Serious Sam 1 beta has been under our noses the entire time.
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Old 08-11-2012, 03:09 AM   #2   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Serious Sam 3's level flow is based off of Serious Sam: FE's beta level flow

*Memphis. Memphis was the Capital of the Old Kingdom (not the New) and it was confirmed that the first levels are Memphis. Though then again, I did find out that Suburbs, Sewers, Metropolis were part of Thebes, so maybe you are right, that the first levels were actually Thebes and Sam never went to Memphis.

Also *Unearthing the Sun to Power of the Underworld. Also, *Guardian of Time = Hatshepsut
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Last edited by Solais; 08-11-2012 at 03:17 AM.
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Old 08-11-2012, 04:38 AM   #3   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Serious Sam 3's level flow is based off of Serious Sam: FE's beta level flow

So you are saying that the BFE, the story from the future was planned in the beginning?
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:27 AM   #4   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Serious Sam 3's level flow is based off of Serious Sam: FE's beta level flow

Quote:
Originally Posted by h@ker@ View Post
So you are saying that the BFE, the story from the future was planned in the beginning?
Or maybe Croteam invented a time lock that could only go back up to 17 years ago, where they first started the planning Serious Sam.

Aside from the jokes, that's a very interesting pattern. Perhaps Croteam simply revisited their old ideas for the first game, and gave them a slight upgrade.
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Old 08-11-2012, 06:14 AM   #5   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Serious Sam 3's level flow is based off of Serious Sam: FE's beta level flow

It's actually interesting. You travel through the mountains in Guardian of Time, and then you enter the Temple in the first FE level.
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Old 08-11-2012, 06:19 AM   #6   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Serious Sam 3's level flow is based off of Serious Sam: FE's beta level flow

If you think about it, the title now makes sense. BFE = Before First Encounter. What was before the release of First Encounter? The Serious Sam 1 Alpha.
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Old 08-11-2012, 01:40 PM   #7   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Serious Sam 3's level flow is based off of Serious Sam: FE's beta level flow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solais View Post
If you think about it, the title now makes sense. BFE = Before First Encounter. What was before the release of First Encounter? The Serious Sam 1 Alpha.
I used to think that if BFE stands for Before First Encounter, it'd mean that it was set Before First Encounter, but after reading this post, it seems that it would most likely mean that. Damn, this means the SS1 Alpha/Beta was technically under our noses all along.

Though, IIRC, Croteam doesn't dump their old PCs, as they have a "PC Graveyard" (or so I saw in a video) and keep their archives backed up (obviously), so it's highly possible they might be revisiting levels from the alpha and redesigning them for new games.

Who knows? SS4 may be a compilation of designs from the SS1, SS2 and SS3 betas.
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Old 08-11-2012, 03:46 PM   #8   Add To Ignore List  
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Exclamation Re: Serious Sam 3's level flow is based off of Serious Sam: FE's beta level flow

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackknighttgs View Post
Though, IIRC, Croteam doesn't dump their old PCs, as they have a "PC Graveyard" (or so I saw in a video) and keep their archives backed up (obviously), so it's highly possible they might be revisiting levels from the alpha and redesigning them for new games.

Who knows? SS4 may be a compilation of designs from the SS1, SS2 and SS3 betas.
So, why AlenL said that all betas don't exist anymore ?? If they still have the alpha version with old textures, guns and levels, I WANT IT !!!!!! I CAN PAY TO PLAY THIS ALPHA !
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Old 08-11-2012, 04:21 PM   #9   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Serious Sam 3's level flow is based off of Serious Sam: FE's beta level flow

Well, I didn't say they might have a working, playable prototype, just the archives. Even if they do have one, I wouldn't really expect it to be 100% finished of what SS1 was planned to be, or even 50%. Maybe just a few complete levels.
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:00 PM   #10   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Serious Sam 3's level flow is based off of Serious Sam: FE's beta level flow

Yeah that's what I think as well, they have some bits and scraps, but that's it.
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:21 PM   #11   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Serious Sam 3's level flow is based off of Serious Sam: FE's beta level flow

I think it's more likely that have a huge archive of old materials thath contains things like old backups of deleted levels, raw Lightwave versions of various models, and old design docs for reference when making games later. I can see them doing things like sending an old enemy model to Nebeziel for ideas, or looking back at the old beta Egypt levels when doing preliminary work for a new level to see if there are any concepts they could mine from them.

That's how I magine Legend of the Beast came to be. They looked through the old archives and went to a folder like "levels/oldbackups/2000/city", found the latest versions of each of the City levels, then imported them to Serious Sam HD and went from there.

John Romero has a huge archive of materials related to developing Daikatana that was larger than 60 or so gigs. it consists of things like old level backups, design docs and tools for developing the game. Some of the material dated back to March 1997, a few months before the game was really announced. Epic Games also has an online backup that had several bits of interesting things in it, like a 1997 tech demo for Unreal 1 and a design doc for Unreal 1 from 1996. If someone like Epic Games still has an archive of stuff made in 1996ish and Romero has an archive of Daikatana stuff that reaches to the start of game development, then I don't doubt that Croteam has a similar archive that goes back as far as when In the Flesh was first being made.
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:35 PM   #12   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Serious Sam 3's level flow is based off of Serious Sam: FE's beta level flow

I actually have something like that as well. Forgotten City originally was made based on ideas from different SS1 ideas and never finished projects I still remember or have some documentation on. It just seems very logical for a developer to keep bakups like that.
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Old 08-11-2012, 09:29 PM   #13   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Serious Sam 3's level flow is based off of Serious Sam: FE's beta level flow

Some other information about how archives work is that Romero's Daikatana backup only has a handful of prototypes, but HUNDREDS of backups of old and obsolete level designs, plus a ton of design docs. I wouldn't be surprised if Croteam's personal archive had the same layout, but with some old models thrown in as well. They might not have any actual working protoypes, but tons of old designs and reference materials, which are much more useful to them than an obsolete and buggy prototype of FE that probably doesn't work on modern hardware.

Last edited by Squadala; 08-11-2012 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 08-12-2012, 04:07 AM   #14   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Serious Sam 3's level flow is based off of Serious Sam: FE's beta level flow

Actually yes, I don't remember the what they use (is there a way to log Steam chat?), but Alen once told me that there's a software they use to store a huge database of backups that they can use to roll back to anytime. He offered me the same program because I think it is free, but for now it was too advanced for me to set up.
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:58 AM   #15   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Serious Sam 3's level flow is based off of Serious Sam: FE's beta level flow

What if after entering the Time-Lock in SS3, Sam ended up too far back in time and arrived in Serious Sam Beta? Then he'd trek his way to Hatshepsut Temple, where he'd enter another Time-Lock to reach The First Encounter?
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