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Serious Editor Discuss mapping ideas & problems or show tutorials and maps.

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Old 06-19-2001, 04:09 PM   #1   Add To Ignore List  
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I really want to know what you all think from Serious.
(please do NOT make replys like "cool game, best game ever, e.t.c.)
I mean say, what you donīt like and needs to be improved and what you like and so on...

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Old 06-19-2001, 05:07 PM   #2   Add To Ignore List  
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It's an awesome game.... Honestly, the grouping functions in the editor NEED to be improved. Currently, when I've got several things selected, and I try to rotate them, they rotate around their own axes. Not good. They should rotate around the center of the "box" created by the selection of them. Kinda hard to explain--like in Worldcraft. Anybody here know what I'm talking about?

Secondly, when I hit Ctrl-Z, I wanna be able to undo the last THING I did, not just the last CSG thing I did. Merging vertices accidentally, and then not being able to undo it without having to redo a whole bunch of other crap is really annoying.

I'd also like to be able to "draw" brushes--again, like in Worldcraft--but that might just be me; I'm used to additive geometry engines. No biggie (definitely not as important as the other two suggestions), but something to think about, no?
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Old 06-19-2001, 07:35 PM   #3   Add To Ignore List  
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I think I probably agree with you about the grouping. Perhaps different rotate buttons for rotating about the 'middle' axis.

There is a snapshot feature that you can use to go back to that specific spot. To understand what's really happening when you undo, it goes and takes back everything until the last csg operation (including that operation). So, if you add a room, then move a bunch of entities around, then undo, it will remove the room and move your entities back to where they were right before you added it. I believe that you can set it to be able to undo deletion of any entity, which is on by default if I'm not mistaken.

You can hold Shift+Ctrl while making your CSG brush and drag on the edges to size it before you add/join it to the world. This should help if punching in numbers is tedious.
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Old 06-19-2001, 08:11 PM   #4   Add To Ignore List  
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I will have to say my biggest request BY FAR would be the brush copier. Another idea I had would be to be able to scale (down or up) by degrees a sector, meaning the whole brush. This would be for making detailed small objects. (mathimaticly difficult I imagine.)

(oh... and a forum spellshecker  he-he )

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Old 06-19-2001, 09:12 PM   #5   Add To Ignore List  
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If you copy your brush to a new world, you can right click the editing views and choose to mirror/stretch the entire world, which would consist of your brush. Copy that back into your first world and place it where you want.

There does need to be a certain freedom of brush manipulation after the CSG action that could be done without inserting things into other worlds and bringing them back in after changes.
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Old 06-19-2001, 10:55 PM   #6   Add To Ignore List  
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Thanks again BWIAN. Mirror and stretch rules!

It's only been right in front of me all the time.
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Old 06-20-2001, 05:23 AM   #7   Add To Ignore List  
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I think that Serious Sam is an excellent game, with a powerful pack of editing tools. I don't think the game itself needs any improvment (other than more levels, maybe) but the Modeller requires some redoing, espacially the entire UV Mapping and Grouping issue.
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Old 06-20-2001, 06:49 AM   #8   Add To Ignore List  
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In SED, there needs to be more polygon surface options, such as a "ladder" (I think everyone wants this) "metal" (it doesn't look right when you shoot a solid thats supposed to be metal and little chunks of rock come off of it.) "wood" and some other different types of surfaces.  Also, there needs to be options to choose gib types for destroyable architecture other than just rock.

Another problem I have, and I'm not quite sure how to fix this, is losing small brushes in a large map.  This wasn't so much of a problem in Worldcraft, UnrealED, or Q3Radiant because the areas you were making weren't so big.  With SED, however, its a new problem because the areas can be huge, and if I make a .2x.2x2 brush in a 1000x1000 map, it is very hard to find.  I find myself having to write down in a .txt file the coordinates of different objects so that I can find them, and know where to put new brushes when I make them.

Like Irion said, I think the modeler needs the most work, especially with the UV mapping problems.
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Old 06-20-2001, 07:53 AM   #9   Add To Ignore List  
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Smashed,

Regarding finding small brushes in large worlds.......

Assuming that the brush is joined in, rather than added in, so as to be independent, one can then immediately (or later) name it via its Name property and then subsequently sort for, identify and select it from within the "Select By Description" feature (see the button with the spreadsheet-like icon, up in the toolbars) and then click the Center Selected Entity button (middle of bottom tool bar) to jump to it in the color perspective view.
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Old 06-23-2001, 12:53 AM   #10   Add To Ignore List  
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Just one thing.

A lot of options we can set are all 'predefined' for us. I want to be able to MANUALLY tweak a texture scroll speed, for instance. And things like 'Add', and 'add pulsating', etc -- why can't we tweak those? Couldn't we have some options there, adjust the variables by hand if we so desired?

Hmm, other than that, I can't think of anything. I'd just like to see, in general, less presets and more low-level power.
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Old 06-23-2001, 05:43 AM   #11   Add To Ignore List  
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Lot's of great ideas, here, guys. I have them noted. When we will have some time, we will do something about it. Can't promise, but will try.
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Old 06-23-2001, 01:43 PM   #12   Add To Ignore List  
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Crackmaster - Hitting CTRL-W adds a step in the undo buffer, you can hit CTRL-W after every vertice edit that way when you hit Undo, it will undo sequently to each CTRL-W that you did.

And great suggestions, especially the roate around a center axis instead of it's own for multiple selected entities.
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Old 06-23-2001, 03:04 PM   #13   Add To Ignore List  
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An idea I posted in the coding forum a while back:

Virtual tree export/import:

I suppose an easy way of allowing exporting would be to have something in the right click menu for a virtual tree folder, and export all items in that and folders 'under' it.

For instance, under the main folder, I have 'Textures - Fortress' which has the different levels I am creating under that (ie, 2fort, Push, etc), and I could export the 'Textures - Fortress' folder with everything else. Other users would merge just that mini-tree.

Just my ideas for the UI for getting it to work. Feel free to do whatever you think is best, of course.
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Old 06-23-2001, 03:48 PM   #14   Add To Ignore List  
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My problem is that I've used QERadiant to much for too long. There is so many features I would love in the editor.

* A proper working undo feature. I know it has said before but the current undo feature is just a nightmare. If I make a texture change, brush movement, accidently add to wrong entity/layer, I just want to roll back 1 STEP ONLY. At the moment I have to save almost every 5 mins!

* Proper texture alignment. Buttons to fit texture to poly shape etc. Manually putting in values and guessing is hard work and time consuming.

* Texture locking. How can you turn it off.

* being able to view more key/values for entities at one time. I know about the "I" key but I would love this as a floating window. Trying to understand the original levels is madness.

* Grid measurements/ruler lines on the 3 windows. I know you can move the cursor around the window and some co-ordinates r printed in the bottom right hand corner but I would love numbers on the grid lines.

* Snap to grid functions. Still cannot find this one.

* Virtual folder works really wierd. When I select on the list for eg. textures it does not update the bottom part of the window. If I double-click on the directory it shrinks the top sections to like 1/2 lines and makes swapping between directories hard work. I now see why each original map has all the textures needed for the level in one folder.

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Old 06-23-2001, 03:54 PM   #15   Add To Ignore List  
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You can align or fit textures in polygon mode by right-clicking on the surface, go to "mapping" and using the options there.

There is no "snap to grid" in SED, because there is no static grid.  It changes with the level of zoom you are using.
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Old 06-23-2001, 07:24 PM   #16   Add To Ignore List  
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I agree with many of your posts. And I hope that we will try to meed allmost all of your requests. Sock, you listed more than few great ideas, I have this post watched carefully. Will try to do something. BTW, did you picked up our latest patch? How do you find our new mapping auto allign functions? What can be added for even better functionality?
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Old 06-23-2001, 08:59 PM   #17   Add To Ignore List  
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(Edited by Green Monkey at 2:01 am on June 24, 2001)
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Old 06-24-2001, 12:36 AM   #18   Add To Ignore List  
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Oh, btw, I really agree on the 'let us turn off texture locking' thing. I mean, if you're trying to make multi-story areas/buildings, this is a MUST.
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Old 06-24-2001, 01:45 AM   #19   Add To Ignore List  
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I've notice that SS has trouble with round things... not spheres, but rounded surfaces. Because everything just looks so blocky.
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Old 06-24-2001, 03:05 AM   #20   Add To Ignore List  
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I'd like the ability to set a template monster's health multiplier, and speed multiplier. The ability to do this, combined with size multiplier, would allow any size boss, and let them travel at the correct speed for their size. Currently, monsters still travel the same speed as their normal size couterparts, and have the same health irregardless of their size.
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Old 06-24-2001, 05:00 AM   #21   Add To Ignore List  
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One of the presets I would like to see taken away is the movement speed in free-look mode in a window.  I find that this is a much better way of navigating the maps, but not if you have huge, wide open space.
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Old 06-24-2001, 05:14 AM   #22   Add To Ignore List  
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Smashed: Thanks did not see that one. What I really meant was that the buttons are on the "Q" window under the texture section. But knowing about the right-click will make it easier for me.

Quote:
There is no "snap to grid" in SED, because there is no static grid.  It changes with the level of zoom you are using.
This is what bugs me, why not allow fixed grid sizes regardless of the zoom as an option. Making detail brushes would be easier. Instead of zooming in and out all the time.

Here's a few more ...

* When I'm creating outside area's and want to have default texture properities like "Directional Shadows" and "Dir Ambient" I have to manually select them after creating a brush. Anyway of having brush templates when you create new brushes? So you can quickly assign certain values to new brushes.

* The shadow's caught me out initially. If I moved a layed brush, the shadows don't update. This is not a great problem but the button on the toolbar does not work unless the shadows have been removed. You have to right-click in the window, discard shadows and then manual re-create with the shadow update button. Why not do all the above with the one button.

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Old 06-24-2001, 05:17 AM   #23   Add To Ignore List  
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Quote:
Quote: from BillyBones on 10:00 am on June 24, 2001
One of the presets I would like to see taken away is the movement speed in free-look mode in a window. *I find that this is a much better way of navigating the maps, but not if you have huge, wide open space.
You can, but it only seems to work with a wheel mouse. I just have a 3-button mouse so getting to that feature is hard work.
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Old 06-24-2001, 01:29 PM   #24   Add To Ignore List  
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The snapping and grid settings are one of the things I first noticed when using the editor. I'd like to increase the grid complexity by twofold across the board, and snap should have the same sort of increase. If I could control it better, that would be cool. The problems arise when I'm editing in a top view zoomed out a bit so that I have about 20m by 20m showing, and I need a snap of at least .5m (and perhaps .25m). I'd have to do the zoom in/out thing.

Also, when moving a brush in 2d views, I'd like it to not snap in any other view. Sometimes, when working with xy 2d view, and you're zoomed out, if the brush is located in a spot in between your z grid, it will jump up or down to meet with it. This should not happen, and the brush should be locked in that direction (ie, the 'z' of your current 2d view)
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Old 06-25-2001, 03:34 AM   #25   Add To Ignore List  
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My wish list ...

* When creating new brushes, why does it always use the center of the new brush as the origin?

It would be useful if you can have a corner as the origin not the center of the brush. It would be much easier to modify and create new brushes, because when you change the dimensions it does not shift the new brush around so much. You could create the brush, move it into position and then safely change the dimensions without it constantly re-centering it everytime you make a change.

* Having up/down buttons on the "Q" window for the dimensions of the brush linked to the grid settings, so when you want to change the dimensions/rotate angle/scale it is quicker than re-typing the amount everytime until it is correct.

* Having texture alignment on new brushes. (Before adding to the world or as a new layer). At the moment I'm creating a sample brush as a template with the texture aligned and then creating the new brush next to it so that I can get the dimensions right.

* A 3 point cutting system for creating new brushes as layers not world brushes. I really really miss this feature so much. I know its possible to create complex shapes by adding brushes together but having a 3 point cutting system would seriously help me.

eg. I wanted to create a brush with one side only sheared but had to create a square brush first, then a sheared brush, csg subtract the two and finally sector join to get rid of the debris.

* vertex manipulation of a new or existing layered brush, so I can quickly twist a new brush into shape and lock on to a grid so it snaps together with the existing architecture. I accept you would have to re-optimize the brush afterwards but it is much quicker then csg subtraction + sector joining to get rid of csg subtraction debris.

* On moving brushes to be able to see the origin point on the brush as a dot or as special marker. At the moment you have to show links and follow the blue line until you find it close by. Or select the brush and drop a marker.

A Little bug ...

* When you are in entity mode (blue) and copy and paste some brushes around, the new brushes do not show up in the top left drop down box for entities. If you look on the "N" window they exist but not in the "Current brush" drop down box. The only way I can solve this at the moment is to re-load the map.

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Old 06-25-2001, 03:45 PM   #26   Add To Ignore List  
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Can I get in on this too?

When I hit Ctrl-Z, I wanna be able to undo the LAST THING I did.  It just erases the last brush I put in.

I'd also like to be able to "draw" brushes with the mouse,  like in Worldcraft.

I'd like to be able to resize a brush AFTER I added it.  (I always add, in layer mode).
How about a "fit texture to poly" button.  I'm never sure what to type in to the stretch box to make the texture fit.

An update of the help file would be GREAT!  What each button does, in detail.

(Am I peing too picky?)

On the other hand, I love the game, the graphics, and that it comes with an editor.  After you've played thru the game, the most fun is creating your OWN places to fight.

-Gary
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Old 06-25-2001, 06:03 PM   #27   Add To Ignore List  
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Hehe, a lot of people hate the 'undo' feature. The interesting thing is, you can set that. It's in your preferences. For instance, *I* like to have it in the default mode when I'm adding features to an already lit scene, or when I'm lighting it, so that I can delete ugly looking architecture or major changes *without* changing my already finalized lightsets.
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Old 06-25-2001, 06:18 PM   #28   Add To Ignore List  
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Oh oh oh. I just remembered the biggest one.

When I have Worldbase architecture that is detailed, sometimes lighting will shine right through my wall and affect architecture on the other side of the wall!

Here's the deal. My Worldbase architecture is very, very simple -- but I want to have a narrow 'lightstrip' running along the wall, and for lighting and navigation purposes I do not want it to stick out from the wall. Therefore, I've decided to just cut this 'lightstrip' out of the worldbase, which is the best solution I feel.

Problem? Problem is that to achieve the lighting affect I want, my lights have to be placed *inside* this narrow slot, and when I do that the editor apparently just decides that, what the hell, they're close enough to the wall that they may as well shine through into the next room over!

In fact, ALL of my gripes with the editor (and believe me, I don't have that many; it's easily my favorite editor of all time even as it is) are about lighting. The rest is just sort of irrelevant to me. For instance: WHERE ARE MY SPOTLIGHTS?? If I want a light to shine in onse direction and one direction only, right now I have to use terrain to create a hood around the light. Maybe this isn't important to mapmakers in UT or Q3A, but after mapping in DromEd for Thief 2, where lighting really affects gameplay, I got a huge respect for the importance of directional lights.

And unless I've overlooked something really, really obvious, both in the Editor or in the original missions, I can't seem to make a directional light without using world geometry to make a hollow tube to place my light in. It's a massive, massive, massive pain in the ass. Seriously.
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Old 06-26-2001, 06:15 AM   #29   Add To Ignore List  
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There IS this "directional" type of light...

Edit: I really should test stuff before I post it... Sorry for the inconvenience.

(Edited by Earthling at 2:14 pm on June 26, 2001)
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Old 06-27-2001, 05:50 PM   #30   Add To Ignore List  
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Hehe no I mean like a spotlight. Not like sunlight.
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