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Old 08-25-2002, 04:26 PM   #1   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Time Travel: Impossible

I came up with a theory on why Time Travel is impossible a while ago, and while reading this article on Scientific American, I figured I'd post my thoughts on the whole issue here.

My views apply to time travel into the past, not the future. Let's use Joe as an example. Joe makes a time machine that will take him into the past. He's careful that he puts himself at a safe time/place in the past...let's say about 30 minutes previous to present, in a safe place where he won't materialize in something. So he goes back in time 30 minutes.

When he does this, he obviously doesn't knock a lamp over...he was careful to avoid that. But the act of him being there 30 minutes prior to when he left changes the earth. Gas particles are moved around, moving others around, bouncing off of things and changing things in the smallest way, not even noticable.

But, it was changed. This means the Joe that is going to be going back in time in 30 minutes isn't exactly the same. The air in the room isn't exactly like it used to be. However small it may be, there has been a change in the state of the earth, including the state of Joe and his time machine.

Now, this change doesn't stop Joe from going back in time(again?), but it does cause him not to go back in time exactly the way he did before. So we get stuck in a loop. If you aren't confused already...this will definately confuse you. Joe went back in time, changed the way he went back, and therefore went back originally in a different way. But since he already did that...he did something he couldn't have done, as he changed how it was done. In other words, he did the impossible, creating a paradox that would most likely destroy all of space and time(afterall, doing something that's impossible isn't good...). Since I'm typing this right now, and you're reading it right now, space and time are obviously doing well..

Therefore, time travel isn't possible at all, and even if you could do it at the cost of destroying anything, it will never be done, as we still exist.
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Old 08-25-2002, 04:29 PM   #2   Add To Ignore List  
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i agree!
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Old 08-25-2002, 04:29 PM   #3   Add To Ignore List  
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Of course, I ignored the entire aspect of there being two different Joes. And what might happen if Joe were to stop his "other" self from going back in time....
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Old 08-25-2002, 04:34 PM   #4   Add To Ignore List  
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did i mention that i killed 102 people in counter strike? Im like a killing machine dammit
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<p0s> interesting.....humans build computers with hundreds of millions of transistors....for rating each others poo

<[S]Darth_Plato> I would like to live in a tree
<[S]Darth_Plato> or in a cave with an ant
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Old 08-25-2002, 04:36 PM   #5   Add To Ignore List  
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im a smart guy(at least I think so) but that doesnt make a lick of sense. how does displacing air particles affect anything at all?
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Old 08-25-2002, 04:38 PM   #6   Add To Ignore List  
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True, there is no true time travel. However, there has been some scientific evidence of parallel universes. (it involves the vibrations of photons in a single-photon beam of light, I won't go into it here.) Time travel may not be possible, but traveling into parallel universes and back certainly is. There is one theory where every time someone makes a choice, two parallel universes are spawned, one for each outcome of the choice. Such as, if our Joe chose to eat at McDonald's instead of Burger King, then a parallel universe was created where Joe did, infact, choose BK over McD's.
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Old 08-25-2002, 04:40 PM   #7   Add To Ignore List  
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Very interesting theory. Time travel is always an interesting subject. I seen a movie the other night called 'frequency' where a strange aurora borealis or some other strange electrical phenomena caused this guy to be able to talk to his father with a ham radio unit (who had already died) 30 years in the past.
Even though there was no time travel involved, every time he told his dad something that would happen to avoid something bad, something else bad happened as a result of the time line change.
Time paradoxes always something fun to think about.
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Old 08-25-2002, 04:43 PM   #8   Add To Ignore List  
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Time travel IS possible damnit! Some day I'll complete my Tardis and then you'll all be sorry you doubted me! Mwahahahahahaha -cough- hahahahahahahahew!
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Old 08-25-2002, 04:44 PM   #9   Add To Ignore List  
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oh my god alien slayer! frequency was such a cool movie! I saw it recently and i really enjoyed it! gets the brain thinking you know? especially how in the end he puts down the cigarette and you know (wont spoil the movie for those who havent seen it). Brilliant movie, but yeah i thought about time travel a lot, and its totally mind boggling, in the end i dont think it would be possible to travel back in time and witness events of the past happen, because by you being there you will change things, no matter how minute they can be, and these things will affect the future, almost to immense measures... bleh its hard to explain but n/m
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<p0s> interesting.....humans build computers with hundreds of millions of transistors....for rating each others poo

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Old 08-25-2002, 04:45 PM   #10   Add To Ignore List  
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Quote:
Originally posted by LactosetheIntolerant
im a smart guy(at least I think so) but that doesnt make a lick of sense. how does displacing air particles affect anything at all?
Because they're being moved to a different state/place than they were when he originally was preparing to go back in time. Therefore, the earth before him going back in time is different, and so on...
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Old 08-25-2002, 04:52 PM   #11   Add To Ignore List  
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I remeber readng a sci-fi story in school about this guy who goes on a dino hunter safari thing and he got told to not change ANYTHING around them,hell they were on a hovering platform.

Anyway when they were leaving the guy stood on a butterfly and when he came back to the present the germans ruled over the world.It really got me thinking,all that from stepping on a butterfly.

It was a good story
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Old 08-25-2002, 04:55 PM   #12   Add To Ignore List  
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Or how about the Simpsons episode where Homer kept changing the past
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Old 08-25-2002, 04:56 PM   #13   Add To Ignore List  
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yes but what if, what we know as history, cant happen until someone goes back in time to do something to make it happen, so what if we HAVE to go back in time in order to not destroy the universe.
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Old 08-25-2002, 04:57 PM   #14   Add To Ignore List  
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and besides, its only impossible because I havent tried it yet.
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Old 08-25-2002, 04:58 PM   #15   Add To Ignore List  
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Quote:

I remeber readng a sci-fi story in school about this guy who goes on a dino hunter safari thing and he got told to not change ANYTHING around them,hell they were on a hovering platform.

Anyway when they were leaving the guy stood on a butterfly and when he came back to the present the germans ruled over the world.It really got me thinking,all that from stepping on a butterfly.

It was a good story

Dude!!! That was an awesome story!!! Shit, was the author's name? I'll think of it. I remember the book's name, R is for Rocket.

EDIT: found it. A sound of thunder, by Ray Bradbury.
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Old 08-25-2002, 04:58 PM   #16   Add To Ignore List  
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i like the theory of Moorcocks Multiverse were u can have time travels cause every possibility is an other dimension of the Multiverse.
U can move to future without restrictions cause u cant change something that has to do with u but u cant go back to the past ( at least not for long) cause u can change ur own future or present! That depends on the point of view
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Old 08-25-2002, 05:00 PM   #17   Add To Ignore List  
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Interesting concept
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Old 08-25-2002, 05:01 PM   #18   Add To Ignore List  
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u ever read Moorcock if not u should hes an awesome Author with some weird ideas and concepts
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Old 08-25-2002, 05:04 PM   #19   Add To Ignore List  
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Read my other post, Dave.
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Old 08-25-2002, 05:06 PM   #20   Add To Ignore List  
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How about this theory (not time travel but still fun):

Part 1
An astronomer on earth looks through his telescope and witnesses a supernova in a galaxy 1 million light years away. Since light travels at a certain speed, what the astronomer sees actually happened 1 million years ago. In other words it took 1 million years for the light from that supernova to reach the earth.

Part 2
Now let's reverse the above scenario. Let's say that you are at a point in space 1 million light years from earth. When you look at the earth, you are seeing the earth the way it was 1 million years ago.

Part 3
OK now let's say you have a spaceship that can travel faster than the speed of light. And let's say you also have a REALLY powerful telescope. Taking into account parts 1 and 2 above it would be possible to leave the earth in your ship, travel faster than the light that's leaving the earth, and then look back with your UBER telescope to see things that happened in the past. You could watch specific dates in history by simply calculating how much faster than light your ship is and how far out you would need to travel. You could watch yourself being born, Columbus landing in America, dinosaurs, etc.....
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Old 08-25-2002, 05:08 PM   #21   Add To Ignore List  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nexu
Read my other post, Dave.
Thats the story there,well found
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Old 08-25-2002, 05:09 PM   #22   Add To Ignore List  
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Quote:
Originally posted by LactosetheIntolerant
im a smart guy(at least I think so) but that doesnt make a lick of sense. how does displacing air particles affect anything at all?
I think where Rod is going with this is, that it is said that even the tiniest movement of air by a butterfly can make a change in weather patterns, or so it is said.
The tiniest details that might normally go unnoticed may affect events and cause a snowball or ripple effect changing the course of events down the line.
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Old 08-25-2002, 05:09 PM   #23   Add To Ignore List  
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Yeah, you can come up with some frigged up theories, and who the hell knows if they're true, because it's impossible to prove them, at least right now.
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Old 08-25-2002, 05:15 PM   #24   Add To Ignore List  
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Quote:
Originally posted by KILLIGULA
How about this theory (not time travel but still fun):

Part 3
OK now let's say you have a spaceship that can travel faster than the speed of light. And let's say you also have a REALLY powerful telescope. Taking into account parts 1 and 2 above it would be possible to leave the earth in your ship, travel faster than the light that's leaving the earth, and then look back with your UBER telescope to see things that happened in the past. You could watch specific dates in history by simply calculating how much faster than light your ship is and how far out you would need to travel. You could watch yourself being born, Columbus landing in America, dinosaurs, etc.....
Now that is something to think about.

In fact it is in a way time travell.....
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Old 08-25-2002, 05:15 PM   #25   Add To Ignore List  
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Quote:
Originally posted by KILLIGULA
How about this theory (not time travel but still fun):

Part 1
An astronomer on earth looks through his telescope and witnesses a supernova in a galaxy 1 million light years away. Since light travels at a certain speed, what the astronomer sees actually happened 1 million years ago. In other words it took 1 million years for the light from that supernova to reach the earth.

Part 2
Now let's reverse the above scenario. Let's say that you are at a point in space 1 million light years from earth. When you look at the earth, you are seeing the earth the way it was 1 million years ago.

Part 3
OK now let's say you have a spaceship that can travel faster than the speed of light. And let's say you also have a REALLY powerful telescope. Taking into account parts 1 and 2 above it would be possible to leave the earth in your ship, travel faster than the light that's leaving the earth, and then look back with your UBER telescope to see things that happened in the past. You could watch specific dates in history by simply calculating how much faster than light your ship is and how far out you would need to travel. You could watch yourself being born, Columbus landing in America, dinosaurs, etc.....
well that sounds like a story of Joe Haldeman i read but there it was a war that lasted forever cause they had spaceships that moves faster than light ! So one Battle that lasts a month for the soldiers last 200 or 300 years on earth ane when the soldiers come back the society totally changed

edit: srry i cant say the english title cause i am a german and cause of that i only know the german title
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Old 08-25-2002, 05:17 PM   #26   Add To Ignore List  
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Yes, but faster-than-light travel is also suspected to be impossible...

Oh, and on the subject of theories and proving them: Gravity is a theory.

Food for thought.
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Old 08-25-2002, 05:19 PM   #27   Add To Ignore List  
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in my opinion, if time travel WERE possible.. it wouldn't exactly be going "Back" in time

Such as this..

Joe goes back in time 30 minutes
Joe would see himself... but since time is *always* going forward, it basically just creates time as a new section

hard to explain but like
Timeline example:

What the paradox theory would be

Joe eats a sandwich
Joe goes back intime 30 minutes
Joe sees himself.
Joe stops himself from going into the time machine.
Joe 1 would disappear, because he never went back intime. Joe2 would still exist, though.

Now, in that example, (It would be easier if i put in timestamps) you would literally go BACK in time.
But in this example below, time would always move forward, so time would remain consistant.

Now, sort of what i think would happen
Joe eats a sandwich
Joe goes back intime 30 minutes
Joe sees himself.
Joe doesn't eat a sandwich, he's already eaten one. But he stops the other joe from eating, also. So one joe is hungry, the other one isn't.
Joe stops himself from going into the time machine.
Both Joes still exist, as time is moving forward.

Sort of like.. each time you would go back in-time.. TIME itself would keep moving forward.. but it's like.. a carbon copy of the world as it WAS during that time, is what you will see then. and you would just keep placing a copy of the world back to the present time

So if you went back in time 30 minutes, back in time 20 minutes after going back in time 30, and go back in time 10 minutes after going back in time 20.. you'd end up with this

youi'd end up with this
Present -> 30 minutes ago -> 50 minutes ago -> 60 minutes ago.

instead of what is commonly thought about, which would be
60 minutes ago <- 50 min ago <- 30 min ago <- Present
as you would be going BACK in time, but i think it would be the first example of time continuing always.
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Old 08-25-2002, 05:23 PM   #28   Add To Ignore List  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rodzilla
Yes, but faster-than-light travel is also suspected to be impossible...

Thats cause of the fact that an object which comes close to the speed of light does have an weight that goes close to infinite

And some scientists made an experiment in which they shot a particle through a tube and it moves out of the trube b4 they shot it in

thats something to think about
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Old 08-25-2002, 05:23 PM   #29   Add To Ignore List  
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Which would me that we would eventually go backwards until none of us were born.

Weird
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Old 08-25-2002, 05:29 PM   #30   Add To Ignore List  
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I've always wanted one of those stopwatches that stops time, like in that episode of the Twilight Zone.
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