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Old 10-05-2014, 06:00 AM   #1   Add To Ignore List  
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Default A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

1. How long have you been using Serious Editor 1?

2. For people just starting with the editor, what key pieces of advice can you offer them?

3. What do you find to be irritating when using the editor?

4. If you could add one feature to the editor, what would it be?

5. When preparing to start a new map/level/campaign, how do you begin?

6. What is an important and often overlooked element in map making?

7. What do you consider to be the best feature in Serious Editor 1?

8. Any funny or crazy editor stories to share?

9. Have you ever used any other level editors? If yes, which ones and how do they compare?

10. Do you have any interesting Easter eggs in any of your designs?

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Old 10-05-2014, 03:50 PM   #2   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

Wait, I need to answer the questions here?

If yes:

1. 2 - 3 years.

2. -

3. Autosaves... hate them.

4. Terrain maker.

5. Firstly I creating a new world (big box 3000x3000x300), then chose flags and name the level.

6. The gameplay (enemies, weapons, secrets placement).

7. Hmmm, Journey to Hell campaign.

8. Flying big creeper or armored gnarrs (added shield and halabar, then select "parent"). Also making a "30 big aldurians" boss.

9. I have never used other editors.

10. Some... Like the Polish Flags secrets, drunken gnaars, trampoline, and the best of all (in 1st level from To Hell and Back), Spooken Jaguar Rider!
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Old 07-06-2015, 01:50 PM   #3   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

1. How long have you been using Serious Editor 1?
I have started to learn it in 2010, so 5 years

2. For people just starting with the editor, what key pieces of advice can you offer them?
Make a lot of testing levels, to train yourself, don't hesitate to ask for help, be careful using world bases (don't add anything to a single worldbase etc...), don't use too many complex things when you begin (LoD etc...).

3. What do you find to be irritating when using the editor?
When you click the color function at the bottom, the editor crashes and this sucks really.

4. If you could add one feature to the editor, what would it be?
Terrain editor as Maska said.

5. When preparing to start a new map/level/campaign, how do you begin?
Sometimes improvising the layout and sometimes drawing a design before starting making the level.

6. What is an important and often overlooked element in map making?
The gameplay, the design, the originality, the ambiance, fights for coop levels etc...

7. What do you consider to be the best feature in Serious Editor 1?
I love how the trigger work, the real-time shading is very important for a map, because in Hammer editor, there is no real time shading. The mvoing brush system is really pleasent and easy as well. The shortcuts are very important and I love them. Also the vertex mode is pure awesomeness. RAW files importation is very good and I love the fact it's possible to select polygons and the function it has (move them to brushes or clone them to brushes) and the World base system is so useful. A lot of other functions are useful and pleasant.

8. Any funny or crazy editor stories to share?
In november 2011, I was helping Mental4 make his campaign The Great Adventure. Everything was going well and suddenly came an outage at the same time I was saving it. I checked if the level was correctly saved, but it was not. So I got inspired of making my own campaign.

9. Have you ever used any other level editors? If yes, which ones and how do they compare?
- Hammer editor
- CS2D editor
- Ace of Spades editor
- Age of empires editor
- SED 2
- SED 3
- SED 3.5

But the best for me keeps being SED 1

10. Do you have any interesting Easter eggs in any of your designs?
I already did a map with Duke Nukem in it, but I didn't release it.
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Old 12-16-2015, 05:54 AM   #4   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

1. Since early 2006, I still have to learn a lot of stuff though

2. Read the Help Topics: there are a lot of instructions, including how to create a basic neat map

3. If you have a directional light you have to refresh the cluster shadows anytime after you make changes

4. Parallax ,normal and specular mapping. Also in-game editing. Am I asking too much?

5. Before creating a map make sure to create a sketch on paper of the map you're planning to do, and while creating it pay attention on texturing, lightning and details.

6. Level design, gameplay and enemy placements

7. The ability to test maps without saving, neat effects such as fogs, hazes, reflections and glares, mirrors, manipulating gravity, entity parenting...

8. I've added kazuya005's face on the BigHead secret enemy and put it in a museum which shows his best "art works" XD . I've done lot more hilarious stuff including Sanic Werebulls, doritos health items and more

9. I've used CaveStory's unofficial editors: CaveEditor and Booster's Lab. I prefer the first one though..

10. The one I've mentioned on q.8
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Old 12-16-2015, 06:33 AM   #5   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

1. How long have you been using Serious Editor 1?
Since I was 14, so 12 years now.

2. For people just starting with the editor, what key pieces of advice can you offer them?
Read tutorials, explore other maps to see how things are done and keep practising.

3. What do you find to be irritating when using the editor?
Strange things happen when a world file becomes too large (>18MB), and there's no way to fix that. Also it has a pretty low limit on polys at once.

4. If you could add one feature to the editor, what would it be?
Carrying over of data between levels: I.e., if you found secret A in the previous level, something happens in level B.

5. When preparing to start a new map/level/campaign, how do you begin?
Making a basic plan on what it should be about, brainstorming a layout.

6. What is an important and often overlooked element in map making?
Proper lighting adds so much to the looks of a map, and meticulous enemy scripting makes a level replayable (don't just plop in 100 monsters but work with enemy death targets, trigger count use and enemy spawner types).

7. What do you consider to be the best feature in Serious Editor 1?
Ease-of-use and power.

8. Any funny or crazy editor stories to share?
I once made a level so big it reached the 20 MB mark. Then the lighting started showing really weird artifacts and glitches, and disappeared completely eventually (it was pitch black). I split the level into four parts.

9. Have you ever used any other level editors? If yes, which ones and how do they compare?
I've tried Hammer, Unreal Engine 1 editor and QuArK. They all seem very cumbersome compared to SEd1.

10. Do you have any interesting Easter eggs in any of your designs?
Since I really enjoy Levelord's, Juan Pancho Eekels' and Myscha the Sled Dog's work my levels are rife with hidden goodies.
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Old 12-16-2015, 10:29 AM   #6   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

1. How long have you been using Serious Editor 1?
Since 2004? It's been a while..

2. For people just starting with the editor, what key pieces of advice can you offer them?
Experiment, press buttons, see what things do.. Also open up other levels and see what kinda things they do in polygons, properties, entities, etc.

3. What do you find to be irritating when using the editor?
Not too much.. if something annoys me I fix it in Rev

4. If you could add one feature to the editor, what would it be?
I already added it to Rev, although I don't think anyone used it yet, which is a feature called "Player Paths", where you can see the exact path a player followed while playing a map. We used this for testing survival levels, I'd see paths of playtesting as lines and see where players would walk more and where players would walk less, etc..

5. When preparing to start a new map/level/campaign, how do you begin?
Block it out, worldscript it, add some enemy layouts, etc..

6. What is an important and often overlooked element in map making?
Scale, sadly.. rule of thumb: your camera should not be jumping when walking through a corridor in third-person. If it does, scale up your level (or hallway) x2! Don't be afraid to give players too big of an area to walk.

7. What do you consider to be the best feature in Serious Editor 1?
Scripting in the Rev editor (which is still highly experimental, but very promising in initial testing)

8. Any funny or crazy editor stories to share?
I made flappy bird in Rev once :I

9. Have you ever used any other level editors? If yes, which ones and how do they compare?
Radiant, Hammer Editor, etc.. couldn't say much about comparisons, as they all have their own uses

10. Do you have any interesting Easter eggs in any of your designs?
Aforementioned flappy bird might be somewhere in Bright Island :I
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Old 02-18-2016, 12:02 PM   #7   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

1. How long have you been using Serious Editor 1?
Ohh, I can't say a definite number. I grew up with it, so more than ten years.

2. For people just starting with the editor, what key pieces of advice can you offer them?
Fiddle around with other maps. See how things work. Experiment and see what happens when you put certain things together.

3. What do you find to be irritating when using the editor?
When something refuses to be triggered and I can't figure out why. When I make a too large map and it gets really laggy. And dealing with terrain.

4. If you could add one feature to the editor, what would it be?
A way to make your own enemies/weapons. That's pretty much the only thing I liked about SEd2 and the only thing I did in SEd3.

5. When preparing to start a new map/level/campaign, how do you begin?
Brainstorm, select the music, decide the atmosphere. Click new, add the spawn room, the background and start doing stuff.

6. What is an important and often overlooked element in map making?
I like pacing. I like when you don't get all the weapons and kill every type of enemy right at the beginning. Also variety. Don't have long floods of the same enemy, keep the player on their toes. And you don't have to follow the same weapon order that Croteam did.

7. What do you consider to be the best feature in Serious Editor 1?
It's simplicity. You just string things together.

8. Any funny or crazy editor stories to share?
I extracted the .gro files wrong and nobody could play my map, because they extracted correctly. I had to stay up all night to replace every-single-damn-thing with the correct folders. Which was impossible, so I just included the incorrect folder to my .gro.

9. Have you ever used any other level editors? If yes, which ones and how do they compare?
SEd2 - I couldn't use it properly, because it requires you to model things. Which I suck at. So I just stuck rollerballs all over a Bone Snake and called it a new enemy.
SEd3 - Same here. Only made enemies.
Jazz Jackrabbit 2 - Similarly simple level editor. And you can get some new tiles.
Warcraft 3 - Completely different. It's a lot of coding, but dumbed down enough for me to use it.

10. Do you have any interesting Easter eggs in any of your designs?
I like to throw in references, I'm not sure how many people will get. I also like to name my brushes silly things.
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Old 02-19-2016, 09:35 PM   #8   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

1. How long have you been using Serious Editor 1?
Since 2004 if I remember correctly

2. For people just starting with the editor, what key pieces of advice can you offer them?
The best way to learn anything is reverse engineering. When you play a map and you come across cool effect/battle/cutscene etc. just open that map in editor and
see how it works. There will always be someone who knows more than you.

3. What do you find to be irritating when using the editor?
Ctrl + Z (undo)can destroy your work by sending you 2 hours back.

4. If you could add one feature to the editor, what would it be?
Being able to change things like weapon and player models on the fly. I'm guessing that in future Revolution's BromScript will provide such options.

5. When preparing to start a new map/level/campaign, how do you begin?
I always seek some kind of inspiration like movies, pictures, music that will put me in a right mood.

6. What is an important and often overlooked element in map making?
People tend to make battles that consists of one spawner which spits out 20 enemies one after another.

7. What do you consider to be the best feature in Serious Editor 1?
It's extremely simple to use.

8. Any funny or crazy editor stories to share?
I don't quite remeber what it was, but one of my revolution's workshop item prevented anyone who downloaded it to launch the game until I fixed it. It's like banning people without being moderator

9. Have you ever used any other level editors? If yes, which ones and how do they compare?
I used editor for Shogo: Mobile Armor Division quite a lot but it was garbage compared to serious editor.

10. Do you have any interesting Easter eggs in any of your designs?
I always make a lot of references that probably only 5% of the players will get.
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Old 07-09-2016, 01:18 PM   #9   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

1.] ehm round about 10years

2.] Read the ToolsHelp.chm first and respect the Directory Structure. Use only save chars (a-z, A-Z, 0-9 and _) for folder and filenames.

3.] The bugs

4.] Ability to define different colors for the connection arrows from triggers.

5.] with a worldbase

6.] MipMaps/LOD

7.] Gravity

8.] I have 10years experience with that sed1 thing and i never build a coop map

9.] UnrealEd (1), DoomBuilder2. UnrealEd needs to render the 3D view by pressing a button, Sed1 not. DoomBuilder2 you are building it as 2D so it sucks if you want something more complex geometry.

10.] No

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Old 07-10-2016, 01:20 AM   #10   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

1. How long have you been using Serious Editor 1? At least 10 years

2. For people just starting with the editor, what key pieces of advice can you offer them?
How to navigate the Editor, insert geometric objects like cube, texture it, light it up, insert entities, items, weapons (and they're types), enemies and how to test a map

3. What do you find to be irritating when using the editor?
Random crashes and level corruptions that rarely happen (though thats why I backup more often). Sometimes Editor crashes when you close a map, or open a map for some reason.

4. If you could add one feature to the editor, what would it be?
Maybe I would like a scripting feature that'll be awesome

5. When preparing to start a new map/level/campaign, how do you begin?
Maybe drawing out a level design then start to build some rooms.

6. What is an important and often overlooked element in map making?
Not sure..

7. What do you consider to be the best feature in Serious Editor 1?
Navigation and easy to use editor and CSG tool..

8. Any funny or crazy editor stories to share?
No not that I know of..

9. Have you ever used any other level editors? If yes, which ones and how do they compare?
Unreal Editor and Hammer / Worldcraft. Serious Editor is the best in terms of Usability while it takes a while to make levels in UnrealEditor and Worldcraft. But I like the UnrealEditor because of how flexible it is.

10. Do you have any interesting Easter eggs in any of your designs?
Yes.
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Old 07-10-2016, 05:44 AM   #11   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMI-1407 View Post
8.] I have 10years experience with that sed1 thing and i never build a coop map
But I have one coop map from you, is it your only one?
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Old 07-10-2016, 07:57 AM   #12   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

pssst, don't speak about it.
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Old 07-11-2016, 06:56 AM   #13   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

I have never made a coop map before what is your coop map? Im interested..
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Old 07-11-2016, 12:40 PM   #14   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

1. 12 years.

2. Just read "ToolsHelp" and Basic Room tutorial.

3. Polygonal holes and enemy spawn system.

4. Cool dynamic shadows.

5. File/New?=) It can happen at any time and I just can't say "how".

6. Coop, quick-saves and invisible walls/teleports.

7. He is unique. You can do everything, magnificent scenery, atmospheric rooms... Everything. I love working with lighting and geometry.

8. I can tell many funny stories of life. But editor... I don't know.

9. QuArK, Far Cry 1 Sandbox and SS2 a bit.

10. Mm, yeees=P
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Old 07-14-2016, 08:54 AM   #15   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

oh god the most thing I hate (i forgot to mention) is those .....
POLYGON HOLES!!!

(Though tweaking with CSG presiion does help a little but not all of the time)
And the vertex editing on boundaries of sectors kinda screws them up (like the Other side doesn't get rendered). Vertex editing can be slightly dangerous to geometry, but I do also wish the CSG cubes had "stacks" and options to change verticies on not just the top but the side as well (one side), and you can have like multiple stacks that would be nice..

TO add to #6 I think the most overlooked thing to me is Optimization ... (e.g. Pretenders, Occluders, etc...) and the way how a map is lit.
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Old 07-14-2016, 06:57 PM   #16   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzy View Post
POLYGON HOLES!!!
Ah, this is most awful problem

Sometimes very hard to fix...
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Old 07-14-2016, 08:52 PM   #17   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zdzichu View Post
Ah, this is most awful problem

Sometimes very hard to fix...
Yes and very time consuming too!
Thats why I also make backups as well theres a 1% chance the level will go completely nuts. The worst case especially is the ones YOU CANT SEE :

Like for example im making some structure via a cube and then something stuffs up, do this, then do that, etc... Fix up any polygon holes in the sector and just as I think everything is ok, I add a room OUTSIDE of another room and the polygon flip becomes weird, as if I just added a 'solid' brush but i didn't. That stuff is creepy. That KILLS levels.
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Old 07-15-2016, 05:42 AM   #18   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

I don't find enemy spawner system irritating at all, they are very nice.

About polygonal holes, yeah, they are very irritating, but it still easy to avoid them (simply don't create everything in one worldbase) when you have a polygonal hole after adding a CSG, just press CTRL+Z and re-do your CSG but instead of "Add", press "Join layers".
The only situation in which it's hard to avoid them is when you are doing caves or complex rooms, but you just have to be careful on how you match it.

Another solution when you can't avoid a polygon hole, just make a polygon on that hole on another worldbase and it will be hidden

http://i.imgur.com/VY8VNSil.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/F7Dkc5Tl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/c90hm1Il.jpg

Enlarge the screens here
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Old 07-15-2016, 06:39 AM   #19   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

That's a nice tutorial, Raka.

Also, a lot of the time CSG leaks are caused by the system having trouble properly calculating weird angles. What often works for me is using the cut tool (ctrl+X) and cut the leaked poly at a straight line. In Raka's example, I'd cut along one of the entrance's faces. If it wouldn't fix the leak, undo and cut along another face. Eventually cutting along one of the lines will fix the poly. Optionally you can rejoin the faces, sometimes this keeps the polygon unleaked despite being in the same state as before.
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Old 07-15-2016, 08:51 AM   #20   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

Yeah, using cut tool works as well in some circumctances, sometimes cutting sectors too.
So for guys who wanna know all what can cause CSG hioles (Polygonal holes), here is the list
  • Problem 1: Too much complex brushes into one world base (causing angles/vertex errors)
    Solution: Make most of brushes into another world base (e.g: Pillars, detail brushes, houses, buildings etc...). If the CSG holes is caused by a room, hide it with a world base having the same shape as the hole (see post #18)
    Tip: Just use the zoning world base to create rooms.
    Tip 2: Stairs often make CSG holes when added in the zoning world base, always make stairs as another worldbase, and if you want to make ramps to the stairs, do the ramps in another world base too.
  • Problem 2: Joining polygons can make CSG holes
    Solution: Don't join them
  • Problem 3: Joining sectors can make CSG holes
    Solution: Don't join them
Most of CSG holes are caused by the problem 1
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Old 07-15-2016, 10:08 AM   #21   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

I can show example of seriously broken level..
Tropic Planet from publisher build:
http://i.imgur.com/qVbKVog.jpg
Yep, almost all levels from this build have poly holes.. In some situations, it was very easy to fix, i just used "re-optimize bushes" and presto, i had no poly holes.. Tried this option here, but...
http://i.imgur.com/veStgYd.jpg
Uh... Some of them are fixed, but new one came...
I spend 2 weeks on fixing that くそ of crap, (World base under that poly hole, flipping polys and clone poly to brush..)But hell, nothing happend, still same...
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Old 07-15-2016, 10:25 AM   #22   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

I think everything was build into one worldbase, if you give me the world, I think I can fix those.
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Old 07-15-2016, 11:17 AM   #23   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

Personally I would export these broken geometry to blender and fix it there. Then just reimport to editor.
So almost everyone has their own way to deal with it

Also Raka - you should have aforementioned "Tropic Planet" level in your Perforce build in AlphaLevels folder.
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Old 07-15-2016, 11:36 AM   #24   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTr1gger View Post
Personally I would export these broken geometry to blender and fix it there. Then just reimport to editor.
So almost everyone has their own way to deal with it

Also Raka - you should have aforementioned "Tropic Planet" level in your Perforce build in AlphaLevels folder.
But it's still possible to via Serious Editor.
And yeah thanks, but dunno if it was the same, actually, lots of Alpha maps contains CSG holes
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Old 07-15-2016, 09:36 PM   #25   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

Again, nice Tutorial Raka!!

I also do use world bases somethings and that raises another visibility problem when i think more than 50% of the entity is out of the level it gives this 'flickering' effect ... Though when I do add complex shapes which cause, say a poly cut, I always manage to add it in a way that it doesn't happen (or edit the vertexes myself) which sometimes works othertimes screws the room up.

And woah that tropic planet build looks really messed up with the polygon cuts. Have you tried like raising the CSG precision? Or manually edit vertexes? And I just remembered you can break up the polygon you are adding it to into smaller triangles that works sometimes as well.

Also I wouldn't mind a cut tool tutorial if there is one out there that would be useful to use! I do accidently press Ctrl+X sometimes which is frustrating for me, but I always to into CSG mode to get off the mode; but it'll be nice to learn to use the cut tool properly...

Last edited by Buzzy; 07-15-2016 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 07-16-2016, 04:34 AM   #26   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

The polygon flickering can be prevented by flagging all polys of the brush that's outside the main base as detail. Detail should always be used on an polygons whose (non-zoning) brush doesn't interfere with visibility rendering.
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Old 07-16-2016, 05:36 AM   #27   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

Yeah, as Discy said, the "flickering" effect can be fixed when setting all polygons to detail, if it is a brush. But this effect can appear also on rooms, when moving vertex or when flipping a polygon with the shortcut D or with the Polygon manipulation option, when it comes from a room, just re-optimise brush and this will work 99% of time
It happened recently that once I used vertex badly, and created vertex errors and this was not fixable by re-optimising brush, so DMI-1407 fixed that for me by removing the room and making a new one without any vertex error and adding it to the world base, that's why we should be careful using vertex mode.
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Old 07-16-2016, 09:10 PM   #28   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: A survey of questions for SED1 mappers

Detail flag? Interesting I thought that was just some optimization/rendering thing with large terrain but i'll try it on my brushes and see how they work should be fine thanks! But yeah everytime i mess with vertices, I ALWAYS re-optimize. But if Im adding a room onto my main world it would be added as a separate brush first to avoid problems. Also I notice on one or two of my levels if I add a light on top of that same area, it always crashes. I can add elsewhere but that particular spot? Strange. Probably some vertex miscalculation i guess.
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