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Serious Sam 4 The place to talk about Croteam's next title: Serious Sam 4! What do you know? What do you hope to see in the next Sam game?

View Poll Results: What direction should Croteam take with SS4?
Keep it traditional! 25 41.67%
Switch things up! 35 58.33%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-19-2013, 06:17 PM   #1   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

There's been some talk about this in the SS4 ideas thread, but I wanted to expand it into its own thread and add a poll.

I think Serious Sam is at a crossroads. The return to form (and to their roots) was necessary in SS3 after SS2. But now the question is... where should they go from here? Should they stay along the lines of SS3 and keep it traditional in SS4, or should they switch things up?

I think they did a successful revival with SS3. It's the old school sequel that (most) of us were hoping for. But I feel like after this, they've earned the opportunity to branch out again. I'm ready for them to shake things up. By shaking things up, I'm mainly talking about gameplay. It may sound blasphemous but I'm interested in seeing what they can do if they scrap many if not most of the traditional weapon and enemy templates. A game that's not all about firing a double barrel shotgun into a kleer's face at point blank. Try creating new weapons and enemies that can be just as iconic, and just as fun to play with as what we have in the traditional Serious Sam games.

So what do you guys think? Should Croteam keep it traditional with SS4, or is it time to switch things up?
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Old 04-19-2013, 06:33 PM   #2   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

"Keep it traditional" as in "Keep it Sam 3" sounds very weird. I see "Traditional" as FE or SE. I personally dislike Serious Sam 3, so I guess I'll say "switch things up"?

Edit: Actually, you say "scrap traditional weapon and enemy templates" -- Welp, I guess this poll just became a "no answer" for me.

Edit 2: I write a lot of things "like this".
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Old 04-19-2013, 06:36 PM   #3   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

In my opinion that Croteam needs to change things up. The shooting is a big part and it has to be there, but switching things up is also to must to keep interest in the series.

First is to have a big focus on puzzles. Building the game from the ground up for first person puzzles would definitely help with that. I mean that's obvious, but still.

Second is to have a major focus on story. Croteam doesn't need to slack off and hire a below average writer who can't make anything engaging and makes most of Sam's one liners horrible. Get someone decent!

Third is difficulty. Games are much more enjoyable when after you beat a challenging boss, or get past a very challenging part to you feel rewarded. For the most part Serious Sam 3 wasn't hard, but the challenging moments were not fun nor did it feel rewarding when you beat them. The one that comes to mind is in the last level you have to take on Khums and Kleers at the same time with a limited number of cannon balls. That was not fun, it was just irritating. Resident Evil 4 IMO is the perfect example of Challenge/Reward. It was tough game, but you felt amazing after beating each boss and area.
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Old 04-19-2013, 06:38 PM   #4   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

@Angelo: Um... Serious Sam 3 is very traditional with a few tweaks and additions. It's not exactly the same but it's certainly more traditional than SS2.
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Old 04-19-2013, 06:41 PM   #5   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

I'd say "switch it up" with also "keeping it traditional". This is a no-brainer really. The SS4 thread had similar sentiments. It's not really just going new ways after SS3, but taking a natural evolutionary step forwards. First, getting back to the same style of gameplay as in TSE, then moving even more forwards. That is not "traditional" nor "switching it up" either. It's taking the core elements and expanding it. Yes, there should be new enemies, many of them, but without sacrificing the old ones. Yes, there should be many many many new and crazy-awesome weapons, without letting go the old ones. It's not about "it should be this or that". It should be "this" AND "that" at the same time!

There's the core element of shooting many types of enemies. You can expand that with more kinds of shooting at more kinds of enemies.

There's the core element of a good battle-puzzle-battle balanced pacing present in TSE. You can go back to that and making it stay.

There's the core element of a story and especially a potential of a well-established world and lore thanks to the SS1 Netricsa's many many notes. This can be expanded as well to create a world.

With SS3, the story became an even more of a core element than what SS2 originally tried (not to mention, SS2 did have some epic elements in its story). This can be expanded just as well.
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Old 04-19-2013, 07:04 PM   #6   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

Originally, I would have probably said to keep to the roots that made FE and SE so successful, but recently I have joined the camp of mixing things up.

SS3 was a great game, IMO, don't get me wrong. But it was too much of "been there, done that" and I wasn't compelled to play the game over and over again like I have with the original titles. As long as they have the mechanic of hordes of enemies, I would forgive them for any departures.

So many things I could see... A more open world experience. Re-introduction of puzzles and wacky physics. Better storytelling and use it as an opportunity to flesh out the holes in the previous titles. The list goes on and on.

In the end, I have faith in whatever Croteam comes up with.
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Old 04-19-2013, 07:56 PM   #7   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

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Originally Posted by Solais View Post
I'd say "switch it up" with also "keeping it traditional". This is a no-brainer really. The SS4 thread had similar sentiments. It's not really just going new ways after SS3, but taking a natural evolutionary step forwards. First, getting back to the same style of gameplay as in TSE, then moving even more forwards. That is not "traditional" nor "switching it up" either. It's taking the core elements and expanding it. Yes, there should be new enemies, many of them, but without sacrificing the old ones. Yes, there should be many many many new and crazy-awesome weapons, without letting go the old ones. It's not about "it should be this or that". It should be "this" AND "that" at the same time!
I don't think they can create "many many many" new weapons and enemies without sacrificing any of the old ones. There were only a couple new weapons in SS3 and even then they had to scrap a few fan favorites. If we want a new and exciting arsenal then we're going to have to say goodbye to some of the current staples. I don't think Croteam has the resources to maintain an arsenal that includes all of our favorites as well as a large selection of completely new guns. Same with enemies.

Now if you're talking about having a balance of old and new, making some sacrifices to make room for new ideas, that's what I'm talking about with "switching things up". I'm not saying scrap everything that makes Serious Sam great. That would be dumb. I'm saying it's probably time to take a step forward that's more than just a small evolutionary step. And by small evolutionary step, I mean SS3 + a few new weapons and enemies. Which is, for the most part, the step SS3 took from SS1.

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Old 04-19-2013, 08:46 PM   #8   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

Keep red shoes.... Keep it traditional!
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:24 PM   #9   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

Quote:
Originally Posted by viper45 View Post
If we want a new and exciting arsenal then we're going to have to say goodbye to some of the current staples.
Why? We can do something similar to what Solais suggested in the other thread. Instead of having defined weapons in the arsenal, have weapon types. Meaning, you can only carry one weapon that uses rocket ammo, only one that uses grenade ammo, only one that uses ammo belts, only one that uses plasma, only one that uses high-caliber sniper rounds, only one melee weapon, etc. So, you can find different weapons and decide if you want to swap your weapon from that category with the one from the ground. It's not carrying 2 weapons like in modern shooters. You still carry 8-9 weapons at once, just one of each kind. And they perform in similar ways and use the same ammo, so the decision of what to use won't have a huge impact on the gameplay.

So, for example, you can either carry the XL-2 Lasergun, the Plasma gun from SS2, or a ghos... *cough* beamgun
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:33 PM   #10   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

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Why?
Because it's significantly more difficult and time consuming to develop an arsenal of 20-30 guns versus the usual ~10, and then balance the game for them. I'm not saying it's a bad idea. In a perfect world, it could be really cool. But this isn't a perfect world and Croteam doesn't have infinite time or money. If they can build 30 guns and 60 types of enemies, then that would be wonderful. But I doubt they can, or want to for that matter. I'd prefer a smaller set of weapons and enemies that they can dedicate all their time to perfecting. Quality over quantity.
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:36 PM   #11   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

They can reuse some guns from SSHD and SS3, and with minor tweaks - some from SS2, and this will get them some fast alternatives to the new weapons that they'll build.

P.S. I'd rather they do focus on a bigger enemy variety, maybe not 60 monsters, but at least 20-30. And longer campaign, one that would take at least 2-3 days to complete. I can do TFE and TSE in just a few hours, and SS3 is not very long either. I haven't played SS2 in many years so I can't say for sure, but it felt a bit longer.

It's okay for games like Call of Duty to be short and without much variety since we play them once and throw them away, but for a great game like Serious Sam that we play again and again and again and... having more content can sure have a huge impact on long-term enjoyment.
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Old 04-20-2013, 01:17 AM   #12   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

i dont care if they keep it tradinional or make it new,whatever croteam wants to do,i appreciate it,all that matters to me is that the game will be fun like the others.
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Old 04-20-2013, 03:08 AM   #13   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

What GoG said. There's no reason to scrap the weapons and enemies they have now, after all their engine is built on its last iteration, aka there's always one engine. Meaning Serious Engine 4 will be just a more advanced Serious Engine 3.5. If Croteam wanted, they could easily just port the enemies and the weapons from SSHD and SS3 to SS4, since the engine is the same internally, they just have to make the weapons to work similar to enemies. If we had the edit data for SSHD (which they do have) then converting enemies to SS3 for instance would be piss easy to do even for us.

As the engine becomes more and more modular (and it does become, we can all see how moddability improved in SS3 compared to SSHD, and now we even have the SS3 Edit Data and many many new additions to script in the most recent patches), it will get more and more easier for content to being just there in from the previous games in the new one. There is simply no reason to scrap old stuff, since using them would take some minor development time anyway. What development could focus on would be the new stuff added to the old. Not switching things up, but adding new stuff to the old without scrapping them.


(GoG: My idea was to have two weapons of each type, like how it is now in SSHD/SS3, not a single one, that is too restrictive.)
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Old 04-20-2013, 03:39 AM   #14   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

Maybe it's just me but I don't like the idea of recycling assets from SS3. At least not significant assets like weapons and enemies. If it's sold as an expansion then sure. But if it's a new full game, I just want new content. Bringing in all the old content just because they can doesn't sound like a good idea to me. I already had my fill of that content with SS3.

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Old 04-20-2013, 03:48 AM   #15   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

Eh, I'm all for mixing it up a bit.

I agree with Angelo that it _is_ kind of weird to call SS3 traditional though. Yes, it may be closer to FE/SE than SS2, but it also brought some significant changes. The Arrow (aka Sirian Mutilator bracelet) and the Melee system are significant in my view. I felt that they really changed the way I approached many fights - especially the laso-o-death.


I think what many of us would like to see in the future is alternate fire modes for weapons.
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Old 04-20-2013, 03:51 AM   #16   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

I'm fine with whatever Croteam comes up with, as long as there's no frickin' sand.
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:46 AM   #17   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

Quote:
Originally Posted by viper45 View Post
Maybe it's just me but I don't like the idea of recycling assets from SS3. At least not significant assets like weapons and enemies. If it's sold as an expansion then sure. But if it's a new full game, I just want new content. Bringing in all the old content just because they can doesn't sound like a good idea to me. I already had my fill of that content with SS3.
To be honest, that is again opinion based. For me, significant assets would be the assets used to build the levels, not enemies or weapons. They shouldn't reuse the same assets and environment for SS3, but I'm okay with enemies and weapons, since it shows that the game is a sequel to the previous ones. It also saves time for developing new stuff. SS2 was developed from the ground up, and look what happened. A buggy mess of a game loaded with bad design decisions, bad implementation of features, a campaign that is all over the place, a whole episode cut, a final level that originally didn't even had a finished final boss (on the xbox). It showed some really brilliant glimpses of awesome here and there, because the potential was really there, but in the end Croteam are just 20 people trying to do something great from a limited pool of resources.

Maybe it's just me, but most of the time I really hate when a sequel is just so different from the previous game. I wish everything would progress similar how MMOs, like WoW do: Instead of "removing" everything that was the previous game or expansion, the next one would instead expand upon the previous ones, in many new ways. This is why WoW is such a huge game now with an incredibly varied world to explore and shitload of stuff to do. If I could do it, Serious Sam Extended wouldn't just merge the vanilla games and their DLCs together, but would merge the games together, that would eventually end up as one huge gigantic game with 200 levels of varied environment, 500 weapons and 5000 types of different enemies with a longass story with a well developed world and lore.
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Old 04-20-2013, 05:09 AM   #18   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

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Eh, I'm all for mixing it up a bit.

I agree with Angelo that it _is_ kind of weird to call SS3 traditional though. Yes, it may be closer to FE/SE than SS2, but it also brought some significant changes. The Arrow (aka Sirian Mutilator bracelet) and the Melee system are significant in my view. I felt that they really changed the way I approached many fights - especially the laso-o-death.


I think what many of us would like to see in the future is alternate fire modes for weapons.
Weird... so do most of you guys think SS3 isn't traditional? I mean, I'd say they added just enough new ideas to be able to say they advanced the formula... but nothing big enough to seriously compromise the Classics' gameplay. A couple things like the melee and Mutilator do change your strategy in battle, but it felt more like an extension of the traditional gameplay than anything else. Maybe the melee is a little out of place but still not enough to take away from the traditional formula.

But yeah, secondary fire is a great idea. That's a clever way to retain all our favorite guns but still have a completely new and interesting arsenal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solais View Post
To be honest, that is again opinion based. For me, significant assets would be the assets used to build the levels, not enemies or weapons. They shouldn't reuse the same assets and environment for SS3, but I'm okay with enemies and weapons, since it shows that the game is a sequel to the previous ones. It also saves time for developing new stuff.

Maybe it's just me, but most of the time I really hate when a sequel is just so different from the previous game. I wish everything would progress similar how MMOs, like WoW do: Instead of "removing" everything that was the previous game or expansion, the next one would instead expand upon the previous ones, in many new ways. This is why WoW is such a huge game now with an incredibly varied world to explore and shitload of stuff to do. If I could do it, Serious Sam Extended wouldn't just merge the vanilla games and their DLCs together, but would merge the games together, that would eventually end up as one huge gigantic game with 200 levels of varied environment, 500 weapons and 5000 types of different enemies with a longass story with a well developed world and lore.
Yeah, seems like we just want different things out of sequels. WoW got as expansive as it did because Blizzard made expansion after expansion and never an actual sequel. They just continued to add new content to the base game. That's fine for expansions, but if they're going to make a full blown sequel, I'd want them to start over from scratch. I want a new experience right down to the art assets. That doesn't mean it has to be significantly different, just new, interesting, and up to the current graphical standards. For example, assuming the double barrel shotgun will be in SS4, I'd rather see them redesign it than copy and paste the model from SS3.

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Old 04-20-2013, 05:34 AM   #19   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

Switch things up here as well.

I'll say this. Keep the core gameplay similar, as in waves after waves of enemies. I think SS3 did a good job. What i'd maybe like to see here is more dual weapons that works fine together. For example, laser gun that is otherwise somewhat weak, but if you use it in left hand, while you use freeze gun in the right hand, you would first freeze enemies with it, and then when they are frozen, you could use the other hand's laser gun to now one-shot kill enemy for example.

This would add more tactical thinking. Do i just use weak laser gun on it's own? Do i use freeze gun as a deffense (like, freeze half of enemies so i can deal with res half with some other weapon), or do i use those two in combo, but use more ammo or something this way.

I think that could work great, and it would still be brainless shooter what SS is; so us old fans should still be happy, but it would introduce something new.

And then, one thing that annoyed a little in SS3, is how there weren't many breaks. I love SS action, but i do feel like it needs some breaks between those levels, so that you don't get tired of it to fast, and it's also fun when, after short break, you return to shooting again.

And in these breaks, i think, CT should take advantage to tell intresting story and to use different gameplay approaches, like puzzles and such.

That's where i'd like SS to go in future....

Oh, and since it may be in space (ss4), i'd try to choose locations that tells some sort of story by itself, by the architecture, or the ambient (maybe some ruins), or i don't know...

Oh, and yeah, i don't really see how SS3 wouldn't be traditional. It keeps most of the stuff from TFE, and it really felt like it. Hack, i'd say it's far from traditional (TFE) then TSE itself. It also introduced comletely new type of weapons; flamethrower and the sniper riffle change the game a whole bunch. There were also many more puzzles and level layouts were much different too.

In this regard, SS3 was far more traditional IMO then TSE was. Though i do like TSE or even prefer over TFE.


Oh and what Sedinus said....i don't want to see a single grain of sand in ss4-ss10.
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Old 04-20-2013, 06:47 AM   #20   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

Hell i don't care what they do with the gameplay as long as they make some enemies non-existant.

I.e. Kleers. Kleers are now awful and I cannot stand the freaking sight of them.

Also sand. Sand can go away.
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:42 AM   #21   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

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I think that could work great, and it would still be brainless shooter what SS is; so us old fans should still be happy, but it would introduce something new.
SS was never a brainless shooter, that idea and oversimplification should go out the window when it comes to SS, because it taints the game.

As for the Kleers, somehow I didn't like them in SS3, but they are okay in SSHD. I dunno why, I guess their movement, attack pattern or resistance to weapons or something. They just feel unfun in SS3 but fun in SSHD.

Eh, what the hell, I voted switch things up as well, but the way I'm interpreting it, aka adding more content, but content that is varied, expanded, extended, well paced, not changing core elements completely.
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:36 AM   #22   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

Well, ofcourse there is tactics and stuff..to a degree...but cmon, it's not like i had to use more then 2 brains (pareplegic) cells, and it's not like there was anything else that you did apart from shooting...so in a way, it is brainless shooter...
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:57 AM   #23   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

I say switch things up, I want to see a vastly different arsenal this time around. The thing about the original form of Serious Sam's arsenal is that it's very heavily-focused on dealing medium amounts of damage frequently, this is very evident in the weapons in Serious Sam 2 when the delay between the weapon firing is greatly reduced. The Shotguns were much faster, the Rocket Launcher is ridiculously quick, and so was the Sniper Rifle. This should be flipped around a bit. Make it so that the weapons are more focused on dealing heavy amounts of burst damage with longer delays between shots. Have it so that only a select few weapons are designed around dealing relatively constant damage. Weapon recoil should be a factor. Perhaps having dedicated hotkeys designed around switching melee weapons with the last used guns, or a dedicated hand-grenade function could be added.

The biggest problem I had with Serious Sam 3's weapon balance is that it tries to be both, adding elements of reloading and ADS to give the feel of dealing burst damage, but the weapon statistics remaining exactly the same as their classic counterparts. This results in weapons with a magazine size and reloading feeling utterly useless, when in previous incarnations, for the most part, there is still use for the Single Shotgun and Tommygun after grabbing the Double Shotgun and Minigun.

Making the Miniguns deal double the damage of the Tommygun/Uzis per bullet while retaining the same rate of fire, and having improved accuracy is a terrible idea. Having enemies that are immune to hitscan weapons, and are only vulnerable to weapons that you can't reliably hit them with, except for that one weapon that you rarely get ammo for is an even worse idea. (Seriously, who the hell approved making one of the most annoying archetype of enemy like the Technopolip immune to bullets? I could say the same for Khnums. Don't make ANY enemies immune to anything, period. Make them take half or 2/3 damage instead!)
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Old 04-20-2013, 01:52 PM   #24   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

@Zocky: It is only a brainless shooter if you play it on the lower difficulties.

I can definitely say that on Serious you really have to be involved and focused on the 'battle dance'. You have to prioritize different threats, dodge all sorts of projectiles, be aware of your environment so you don't get stuck somewhere, etc.

Well, if you abuse the save system it gets easier, but then again, what game doesn't in that situation?

Edit: Also, as Solais said, using such a term kind of gives the series a bad name, I think they should be avoided.
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Old 04-20-2013, 02:00 PM   #25   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

Keep it familiar, yet fresh. Sam 3 is a good example of doing just that.
Quote:
Well, ofcourse there is tactics and stuff..to a degree...but cmon, it's not like i had to use more then 2 brains (pareplegic) cells, and it's not like there was anything else that you did apart from shooting...so in a way, it is brainless shooter...
Tactics is using your brain. When all you do is just run around and never let down the fire button, that's brainless. But that only describes SS if you play it on Tourist. Different weapons are good against different enemies, you gotta shoot the right enemy with the right wep, then switch to another one, while dodging all the others and trying to stay alive and also trying to not run out of ammo. That's pretty tight, isn't it?

Last edited by -RT; 04-20-2013 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 04-20-2013, 02:21 PM   #26   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

Well yeah there is that, but still, it's not like i have to actually think too much about it, usually i just use unintentially or how to put it....i don't really have to actually sit down and think if shotgun is really good vs..i dunno, reptiloids or something....i usually go more with the "feeling"....if i use shotgun 2,3 times with no effect, i don't need to think about it, it's obvious it doesn't really work...

While in some other shooters, sometimes, you have to think, you have puzzles and what not....
SS is really just about actions, and with SS3 lacking any puzzles and such, i just find it ok to call it brainless shooter, and i don't really mean that as something bad.

But, anyway, i guess that's just a matter of perspective, that's just how i see it, but in any case, i guess we are getting a tad offtopic.
Not like this is the most important thing on the world anyway...
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Old 04-20-2013, 03:23 PM   #27   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

|I know that people are probably going to hate me for this, but i think that they should switch things up like they did in SS2. Maybe make a better version of SS2 with a different story.
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Old 04-20-2013, 03:32 PM   #28   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

Keep it traditional. Serious Sam 3 just needs a few improvements to be the best Sam game ever made. For me it is already.
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:28 PM   #29   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

While I do agree with you Serious Sam(BG) that Serious Sam 3 was the best game in the series, I'm afraid that the series is going to get stale if they don't switch things up. The shooting is the biggest part of Sam, and that doesn't need to change, but the mechanics of the shooting, movement, etc. I feel need to be switched up a bit. Just my opinion though.
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:36 PM   #30   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Should Croteam keep it traditional, or switch things up for SS4?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zocky View Post
Well yeah there is that, but still, it's not like i have to actually think too much about it, usually i just use unintentially or how to put it....i don't really have to actually sit down and think if shotgun is really good vs..i dunno, reptiloids or something....i usually go more with the "feeling"....if i use shotgun 2,3 times with no effect, i don't need to think about it, it's obvious it doesn't really work...

While in some other shooters, sometimes, you have to think, you have puzzles and what not....
SS is really just about actions, and with SS3 lacking any puzzles and such, i just find it ok to call it brainless shooter, and i don't really mean that as something bad.

But, anyway, i guess that's just a matter of perspective, that's just how i see it, but in any case, i guess we are getting a tad offtopic.
Not like this is the most important thing on the world anyway...
I'm with the others on this one. Serious Sam is one of the "smartest" shooters I've ever played. Moment-to-moment gameplay is all about prioritization, resource management, multitasking, and picking the right weapon at the right time. You and most of us can do it automatically now because we've been playing the games for 10+ years. Other FPS' idea of smart gunplay amounts to knowing when to take cover to allow your health to regenerate, and flanking enemies when your AI buddies tell you to in a scripted sequence.

I think the "brainless" stereotype comes from the sheer number of stupid enemies in the game. People seem to associate dumb enemies with dumb gameplay, but when it all contributes to a complex formula like what's in Serious Sam, it's pretty damn smart.
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