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Old 02-06-2017, 08:50 AM   #1   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Denuvo website compromised, emails leaked, possible source code leak.

https://torrentfreak.com/crackers-sw...mation-170205/

Well, looks like the colostomy bags that are the progenitors of Starforce and SecuROM, also known as Denuvo are on suicide watch as their website got broken into, a list of emails and the phone numbers involved leaked and a list of gaming companies willing to bootstrap their games with this cancer released. The best part of it is that it is likely that the people who broke into the site also got a hold of the source code for Denuvo, which means that it is likely all over for these anti-consumer charlatans. Not like it isn't already, with games as of late, like Resident Evil 7, already being cracked as quickly as within 5 days.

In any case, it is interesting to see which gaming companies are conceited enough to think their games will sell well despite being bootstrapped with what is essentially digital cancer. I am gonna be enjoying the fireworks in the fall out of this breach.
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Old 02-06-2017, 01:19 PM   #2   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Denuvo website compromised, emails leaked, possible source code leak.

Despite the fact that i'm for DRM free SW i do not praise any Hackers/Crackers.
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Old 02-06-2017, 01:28 PM   #3   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Denuvo website compromised, emails leaked, possible source code leak.

I like how Denuvo is painted as evil, yet there is no proof anywhere. Denuvo shortens the lifespan of solid state drives? Debunked. Denuvo negatively impacts game performance? Shouted, but then there are no well documented articles with benchmarks. I'm against DRM that completely screws over legit customers, but Denuvo isn't even real DRM and I can hardly find any cases of legit customers having problems that are demonstrably caused by it. Hell, it got removed from Doom after it got cracked, and if that's not a step in the right direction I don't know what is.

I'm still following this with interest, though. I like the irony of a company specializing in anti-tampering screwing themselves over by something as simple as improper .htaccess settings.
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Old 02-06-2017, 03:30 PM   #4   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Denuvo website compromised, emails leaked, possible source code leak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Discy View Post
I like how Denuvo is painted as evil, yet there is no proof anywhere. Denuvo shortens the lifespan of solid state drives? Debunked. Denuvo negatively impacts game performance? Shouted, but then there are no well documented articles with benchmarks. I'm against DRM that completely screws over legit customers, but Denuvo isn't even real DRM and I can hardly find any cases of legit customers having problems that are demonstrably caused by it. Hell, it got removed from Doom after it got cracked, and if that's not a step in the right direction I don't know what is.

I'm still following this with interest, though. I like the irony of a company specializing in anti-tampering screwing themselves over by something as simple as improper .htaccess settings.
It's the successor to the TAGES solidshield DRM, it phones home every so often to check authentication, and requires re-authentication after a hardware config is changed. I reached out to them in the past to ask what would constitute a hardware change, and their silence on this matter is damning. For all we know, tuning the clock speed of your GPU would cause a phone-home event.

The SSD destruction claim is debunked, but only for the most common use cases. There are some use cases where someone uses their SSD to expand their RAM, which can very well do some damage as the encryption on the game's executable can occur not just during initialization, but also probably at various points in the game.
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Old 02-07-2017, 09:41 AM   #5   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Denuvo website compromised, emails leaked, possible source code leak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valerie Valens View Post
It's the successor to the TAGES solidshield DRM, it phones home every so often to check authentication, and requires re-authentication after a hardware config is changed. I reached out to them in the past to ask what would constitute a hardware change, and their silence on this matter is damning. For all we know, tuning the clock speed of your GPU would cause a phone-home event.
I'd like to point out that Denuvo isn't DRM, it's anti-tampering. It's a piece of software that prevents you from cracking the actual DRM. That being said, the Wikipedia article has this to say about authentication:

"Games protected by Denuvo require an online re-activation for every hardware change every 24 hours. Denuvo limits activations at 4 hardware upgrades per 24 hours."

Four hardware upgrades every 24 hours. Even if changing something minor like CPU/GPU clock speed requires a re-authentication that's a lot of leeway. If you run over the activation limit stated there you might have to look at how you use your computer. And playing devil's advocate here, secrecy is the best defense when it comes to anti-tampering. If people don't know how your software works it's more difficult to break.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valerie Valens View Post
The SSD destruction claim is debunked, but only for the most common use cases. There are some use cases where someone uses their SSD to expand their RAM, which can very well do some damage as the encryption on the game's executable can occur not just during initialization, but also probably at various points in the game.
I don't think it's fair to hold software responsible for potentially degrading your SSD faster if you decide to use it as RAM because a lot of data is moved to and from the RAM constantly. For the sake of argument, even if Denuvo encrypts and decrypts 100 MB of files every 5 minutes it's still nothing compared to the sheer amount of data (models, textures, sounds) an average game using Denuvo swaps around your RAM constantly.

I don't like having DRM forced down my throat, but when my options are an invasive cancerous DRM like Tagès and StarForce or a 'standard' DRM encrypted with Denuvo I'd take Denuvo any day.

The way I do consider Denuvo very problematic is history. If a game ends up in publishing hell or the authentication servers die there is no legal way to obtain it anymore, meaning that an uncracked Denuvo game wouldn't be playable anymore ever again on PC. But that's the problem any DRM/anti-tamper software has.
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Old 02-09-2017, 01:44 PM   #6   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Denuvo website compromised, emails leaked, possible source code leak.

Then you begin to see why I am so down on Denuvo and why I am so glad to see that it's already on its twilight era. It is in itself a restriction on what you can do with your software and your hardware. I mean, siure you can argue that people that use SSDs as RAM-extenders are in the minority, but so were people using Nero, DiscJuggler and the like back in the day.
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Old 02-10-2017, 07:27 AM   #7   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Denuvo website compromised, emails leaked, possible source code leak.

In a perfect world publishers would remove any sort of anti-piracy method after a while, seeing as it's a first-release period piracy prevention method. It's funny how publishers stop giving a shit about supporting their games the moment they aren't as profitable yet can't bother to remove DRM because teh stealz. It's why we can't have nice things like a modern engine version of NOLF and Blood. But then again, in a perfect world we wouldn't have to bow down to the whims of platform exclusivity either.

And what do you mean it's on its twilight era? No doubt if Denuvo truly dies publishers will probably go back to disgusting draconian DRM.
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Old 02-11-2017, 10:21 PM   #8   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Denuvo website compromised, emails leaked, possible source code leak.

>Implying that Denuvo isn't draconian

The only reason you don't know, is because they took great steps to obfuscate how it works.
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Old 02-12-2017, 06:23 AM   #9   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Denuvo website compromised, emails leaked, possible source code leak.

Here's what we do know about Denuvo:

  • No insane always-online requirement.
  • Doesn't require root access to your system.
  • No measurable performance impact proof posted anywhere since inception.
  • Doesn't interfere with the working of the game or modability.
  • Allows you to re-authenticate four hardware changes every day. Draconian to me sounds like four hardware changes forever.


Explain how it's as bad as StarForce or Tagès. Sounds Draconian only because it's hard to crack and they don't give away how exactly their software works (which seems incredibly stupid to do anyway), and most of the reports of Denuvo being cancer seem to come from butthurt pirates. If publishers could agree to remove Denuvo after a few years max I'd say it's the perfect solution.

You also didn't explain how Denuvo is apparently already on its way out.
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Old 02-12-2017, 07:25 AM   #10   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Denuvo website compromised, emails leaked, possible source code leak.

I don't buy a game if it has Denuvo. As much as I've wanted to try Doom, I'm not supporting that kind of anti-tampering, DRM, or whatever you want to call it. DRM hurts customers more often than pirates especially with other forms of media like movies where you're forced to sit through FBI/CIA/SWAT team warnings and unskippable ads before getting to the movie.

I don't think that something like Denuvo is ever justified. Steam has already demonstrated that people are more than willing to purchase games if you offer the kind of service that eliminates nuances like locating the physical copy and keeping the game up to date. Although I'm sure that there are exceptions, I believe that most people who pirate a game weren't going to buy it in the first place. Most people are aware that developers are people too and that they have families to feed so if they don't get compensated, then there won't be any more games left to play in the future.

I can only speak for myself but I would've bought a few games if they didn't have Denuvo. It was employed presumably to prevent lost sales and to retain potential customers but they lost a customer in me so did it really help them meet their goal in the end? I know that I can't be the only one who feels the same. If a game is on GOG, I actually feel even more inclined to support it even if I don't really like it just because it doesn't have DRM.

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Old 02-12-2017, 09:24 AM   #11   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Denuvo website compromised, emails leaked, possible source code leak.

You do realize Denuvo was removed from Doom in a patch because it was cracked and already served its purpose by that time?

And that's where I don't mind Denuvo: To prevent piracy in the most crucial period. I know enough people who bought a game right after release because a pirated version wasn't available. But if that's truly the aim of the publisher they should remove it post-release, which often doesn't happen sadly.
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Old 02-13-2017, 07:08 AM   #12   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Denuvo website compromised, emails leaked, possible source code leak.

Piracy in almost all cases isn't good unless it's justified which falls into somewhat controversial topics, like if a game isn't sold anymore or in your country, or if it's rare.

But one thing a surefire pirate will always tell ya is that they just trying it out and "plan to buy it". This is not justifiable, this is why Demos are a thing; don't tell me this bullcrap.

And of course to avoid paying, in the case of games this too is not justifiable since you DON'T NEED THE GAMES. If you can't play the latest games than too bad. You don't pirate shit because you can't play a game.

I often consider software to be different in this area because most of what is pirated is simply not affordable by the average person.
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Old 02-13-2017, 06:02 PM   #13   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Denuvo website compromised, emails leaked, possible source code leak.

I've been shying away from this topic. It's sad that our hobby (gaming) lies in a climate where DRM and anti-tampering is deemed as "necessary" by many professionals. The toughest nut to crack is that there is no undeniable means of determining whether or not these anti-piracy measures even have an effect on sales numbers. There are just too many factors besides anti-piracy measures that play a part in sales numbers and there's just no definitive proof one way or another. Suffice to say, anti-piracy is effective at "forcing" some players to buy the game since they can't get it for free. On the other hand, many players will avoid the game simply because it has anti-piracy measures.

However, DRM/anti-tamper measures that get cracked in the first day will get far fewer pirate-to-buyer sales than a game that takes a month to get cracked. And that is where Denuvo has been incredibly effective. Rise of the Tomb Raider took months before it was finally cracked, virtually unheard of today. I'd say that probably had a positive impact on sales.

The Denuvo hate train is the offspring from the draconian DRM days of Starforce with very little evidence to back up outrageous claims. Denuvo does not read/write data while a game is being run and games do not take a performance hit. Likewise, Denuvo only ever authenticates when the game is first installed and when hardware changes are made. However, Denuvo does not impose lifetime limits on how many hardware changes you can make, just a 24 hour waiting period for those extreme outlier cases.

I also constantly see it being referred to as DRM when it is not. It is an anti-tampering tool that prevents the DRM system from being compromised/bypassed. If a game does not already include its own DRM (Steam, Origins, UPlay, etc), then the tool is functionally inert and serves no purpose. It's only when used in conjunction with DRM that it becomes a functional tool

In no way am I supporting Denuvo. But considering the alternatives of far more draconian possibilities, I will take it. Especially when most gamers will not even notice its existence in the games they love.

I wish all game developers would remove Denuvo from their games when it finally gets cracked. At that point Denuvo has fulfilled its purpose. Unfortunately we hardly ever see that.
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Old 02-13-2017, 06:20 PM   #14   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Denuvo website compromised, emails leaked, possible source code leak.

I wholeheartedly agree with your post, with one slight change. Publishers tend to claim that DRM is necessary to prevent release period piracy. So if a game isn't cracked after a year or two it's logical to remove anti-tampering/DRM. I'm glad that at least a few publishers are already putting their money where their mouth is and I hope this spreads to other publishers, alleviating the reputation of Denuvo. But realistically this won't happen, because gamers tend to be self-righteous entitled twats.
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:35 AM   #15   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Denuvo website compromised, emails leaked, possible source code leak.

Well, that would be well and good if a) The people behind Denuvo weren't the same people behind Tages and SecuROM b) They are a lot more transparent about how their software works.

The fact that Denuvo is practically a black box is a cause for alarm. We do know that Denuvo probably phones home from time to time to the Denuvo activation servers, we do know that it does this for sure if it detects a hardware change, but we have no way of knowing its heuristics for detecting hardware. We also do know that Denuvo does in fact read and write a lot of data, but this is done in memory as opposed to using the disk drives. Not even the game devs themselves know how their EXEs are modified to use Denuvo.

In reality, the only reason why Denuvo seems solid is because of how much secrecy there is surrounding its operation, this leaves a lot of room for perfidious intent. I mean RE7 got cracked a mere 5 days after release, and the average cracking time for Denuvo-infested games is shrinking fast.

For someone who sees DRM like this that adds no value to the product like the Steam platform does as categorically anti-consumer. I'd like to see all of it go, because it is essentially part of the economics of the corrupt middleman. We don't NEED DRM tech, CDProject Red proves this with GOG.
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