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Serious Sam 2 Discuss anything and everything about Serious Sam 2, the official sequel to SS:FE and SS:SE.

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Old 04-12-2017, 08:20 PM   #1   Add To Ignore List  
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Cool SS2 "lore" and the reboot

So I'm playing through Serious Sam 2 again, as it is one of my "guilty pleasures" (a game too silly for me to consider it canon, but too fun not to play). As I'm going through it, I try to imagine how the reboot will change the existing story elements. Here's some of my thoughts and questions. Prepare for a serious read!

- SS2 opens with the Sirian High Council "summoning" Sam using magic. I hated this as it completely made Sam's quest to secure a space ship to leave Earth (basically all of TFE and TSE) useless. So in my opinion, Sam *needs* to reach the Sirius system using this hard-earned spaceship.

- More of a question. Are all the SS2 planets located in the same star system, Sirius? In real-life astronomy, planets of the Sirius system would be (provisionally) named Sirius A, Sirius B, etc. So it would make sense if "planet Sirius" was "the" inhabited world of the Sirius star system, like how Earth (technically "Sol C") is the inhabited world of the Sol system. But what about M'digbo, Magnor, Chi Fang, Kleer and Ellenier? Are they all conveniently located in the same star system? We only know from old SS1 canon that Kleers come from a planet in the Canis Majoris constellation, of which Sirius is a vital part (they call it "The Dog Star" for a reason).

- If I understand SS2 correctly, then Mental is basically busy "finishing off" life on the planets in the game. But... is he? Only on Kleer do we see Mental as the genocidal monster we know him to be (killing all the Kleers using a massive napalm attack). On M'digbo, he kind of uses lesser races to harass the natives, and uses his more serious forces to "capture" the city of Ursul. On Chi Fang, he isn't trying to wipe out life at all, and he seems content simply "ruling" over the people through his minion Prince Chan. Same on Ellenier, he used the dragon Cecil to levy taxes from the people. Taxes! He's supposed to be a supernatural exterminator! And Sirius itself? It looks completely unscathed. Didn't Mental basically wipe out the Sirians not too long ago? Where is the damage to the city, signs of war? We've seen what Mental did to Earth! He left it a dead, desolate and ruined wasteland. Why is Sirius still pretty and full of life? Who is piloting all those flying cars? Surely not the Sirians? Because they're dead. Did Mental kill them off, fully repair the city and take it for himself?? It's almost as if Croteam forgot their own lore and made Sirius the "planet of the bad guys" and forgot that the planet used to belong to the good guys. Similarly, why is Mental's HQ a pyramid? Pyramid structures would only made sense if the Sirians built them - after all, they inspired the same architecture in the Earth cultures they touched: Egyptians, Mayans and Mesopotamians all built variations of the pyramid. Did Mental just hijack this Sirian-built pyramid as his HQ? Lore/plot consistency, please!

I suggest showing Mental the we know him to be. Ruthless, enigmatic and genocidal. No taxes, no "ruling" planets, only destruction and mass murder - like we saw on Earth in BFE. "Planet Sirius" could be partially pretty, like we saw in SS2, still partially held and inhabited by Sirians. Other areas of the city/planet could be mostly ruined and in the middle of war. Futuristic landscape + post-apocalypse = awesome! Ellenier could be a world still in a medieval phase of development. So still kinda "fantasy", but not "ridiculous" fantasy. So... more like Elder Scrolls or The Witcher. Fantasy you can "take seriously".

- Scratch the whole useless plot line of assembling the amulet. Seriously. 90% of the game was rendered completely pointless when they revealed the amulet was BS and unnecessary. Either that, or make the amulet actually serve its purpose. But instead of a medieval smith, perhaps the other Hum-Tah created it, so their followers could kill Mental if they ever needed to.

Oh, and the surviving High Council should definitely look like the giant dead alien we found underneath Karnak in BFE.

- Perhaps return NETRICSA to what she was in the originals. The text format of NETRICSA allowed for more detailed lore snippets and "tactical info" than the spoken format used in SS2, and it would help keep the lore mostly optional for players who don't care about that sort of thing. I thought she was at her best in TSE: an AI who has personality, and can be funny or serious depending on the situation (someone mentioned the "lions and the convicts"). SS3 was way too serious (and the interface was awful, everything cluttered together). Basically, back to basics for NETRICSA.

That's my rant, for now. I'll add stuff if I think of it.

Last edited by MentalParadox; 04-12-2017 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 04-13-2017, 04:35 AM   #2   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SS2 "lore" and the reboot

SS2R will indeed change many of these. Some things in current SS2 will cease to exist altogether.
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Old 04-13-2017, 05:37 AM   #3   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SS2 "lore" and the reboot

Similarily to the OP, I too in no way consider SS2 canon. It always was just a trippy dream for Sam while on the space ship. A creation of his tired brain while having the first real sleep in days (Sam doesn' even look anything like himself).

Hearing about the remake and what the plan for it is (having the feel and look of the original Serious Sams), I just had to register here and post my thoughts as a long time fan.

Some people might say that storyline is unimportant in a game like Serious Sam, but even though it's modest in SS games, I really like what's in there.

IMHO, SS3 captured the required atmosphere quite perfectly. The world is ending and you are making a last desperate attempt of saving it. This is no colorful happy time, but everybody has already accepted that you have lost and if this does't work out, it's bye-bye time for humanity. Yet Sam Serious Stone manages to make fun of Mental even in these dire times, that's how badass he is.

Regarding SS2, I disliked the game's storyline after the intro and because of it, the entire game. The design direction and obvious catering to consoles didn't help at all. I slogged through it once to be able to say I completed all the games and never came back to it ever. Tried once and got quickly tired of it (meanwhile, I replay other SS games on regular basis).

The only good thing I can think of is that we visited the planet Kleer, seeing Mental's work first-hand.

All I'd like to see are original versions of the enemies (the SS2 version of kamikaze and werebull made me sad ).
Do whatever you want, but make the storyline matter at least a little bit. I like to have a good reason for having to do the things I do in the games I play

We really need a worthy sequel to second encounter. Not make a joke out of SS, but truly continue his story.
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Old 04-13-2017, 10:52 AM   #4   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SS2 "lore" and the reboot

SS1 is just a Duke3D clone with Historical Scenario and a random Alien Overlord (called Mental).

Time warp & time traveling happens only at Spawn and inside Intro cutscenes of FE & SE.

Also SS1 always speaks of Mental but never shows anything of Mental, should Mental not show himself to stop you (the Player = Sam)?

So there is already a low standard at Storytelling in SS1.

I already can see "Gnaar is hating SS1 Storyline" comments.

Last edited by Gnaarwarian; 04-13-2017 at 10:57 AM.
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:56 PM   #5   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SS2 "lore" and the reboot

"SS1 is just a Duke3D clone with Historical Scenario and a random Alien Overlord (called Mental)."

I could easily claim Duke 3D is a clone of DOOM, but with better graphics. FPS shooters share the same roots, what's so "weird" or "wrong" about that? And how is this info relevant to this discussion?

"Time warp & time traveling happens only at Spawn and inside Intro cutscenes of FE & SE."

So...? I fail to see how this is an argument for or against anything in the OP.

"Also SS1 always speaks of Mental but never shows anything of Mental, should Mental not show himself to stop you (the Player = Sam)?"

I would prefer if Mental stays hidden. I think that's one of his strengths as a villain. He's enigmatic. Humans only know he exists because of the ancient writings in the Egyptian ruins. Without those, they wouldn't even be aware there's a thing called "Chaad Sheen" leading the enemy horde. I kinda hope he will stay hidden forever. Maybe make it so that we're not even sure he exists at all (like in the "fan dialogue" at the end of SS2). At this point, showing Mental can only result in disappointment. I mean, what would he look like? He would have to be bigger than Ugh Zan, or he would look underwhelming. He could be formless and invisible, like a cloud of pure psionic energy. He could be a brain-in-a-jar for all we know. I prefer "not knowing"!

"So there is already a low standard at Storytelling in SS1."

The 'lore' in SS1 is kind of 'out of the way' and optional, but it is by no means non-existent or stupid. SS2 just takes the piss and happily ignores previously established facts in favor or ridiculousness. I believe a return to SS1 standards would be a good thing. Have the lore a bit 'out of the way', but make sure it makes *some* sense.
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Last edited by MentalParadox; 04-13-2017 at 12:58 PM.
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