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Old 11-25-2009, 03:32 PM   #331   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: STEAM only?

What makes you think the retail version will not also use Steam?
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Old 11-25-2009, 06:59 PM   #332   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: STEAM only?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisW View Post
They may be able to pirate the game, but they will not be able to play online with everyone else. That fact alone should encourage more people to purchase the game.
Using the only dim beacon of light in the conversation ... so why bother including DRM?

Why impede the growth of your potential customer base when it doesn't cost you a dime. "Cost you a dime" being defined as a physical copy taken from your pocket which costs money to produce & distribute. Not defined as diluting the value based on the ratio of those who paid for the product vs those who haven't paid for the product.

If you put out a quality product, only online/or store retrieval option is to buy which it comes with a key to register with your online account which enables you to play online with "everyone" (*motivation*) and people love it, people are going to buy it.

--------------------------------------

Music examples of this methodology ... lot of 80's bands passing out cassettes for quarters (cost of cassette). Metallica being a prime example until they shot themselves in the foot with Napster (dumb ****s). There's a band I looked up called M.I.A. who started off in the file sharing networks. Please offer up an example of any failed organization selling any form of information (game, music, literature, news, etc) which had 1) a demand for it, 2) an option to buy, 3) no DRM and/or filtered through some *free* network. Sure I can dig up a LOT of much better examples.

Please, just one ... I beg you. I want one because I can't find any. I can only find -FAILED- ONES WHO FORCE DRM ON THEIR CUSTOMERS. I turn away from products with DRM. Want nothing to do with them.
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Old 11-25-2009, 10:55 PM   #333   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: STEAM only?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Divx View Post
Using the only dim beacon of light in the conversation ... so why bother including DRM?

Why impede the growth of your potential customer base when it doesn't cost you a dime. "Cost you a dime" being defined as a physical copy taken from your pocket which costs money to produce & distribute. Not defined as diluting the value based on the ratio of those who paid for the product vs those who haven't paid for the product.
You are out of touch with reality, within 30 minutes of the release of SS HD, the number of purchases made was 700 and it's growing pretty rapidly.

Quote:
If you put out a quality product, only online/or store retrieval option is to buy which it comes with a key to register with your online account which enables you to play online with "everyone" (*motivation*) and people love it, people are going to buy it.
Zeb89

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Joan-Michele/LoserBeggingforanIllegalCopy.jpg

Quote:
Music examples of this methodology ... lot of 80's bands passing out cassettes for quarters (cost of cassette). Metallica being a prime example until they shot themselves in the foot with Napster (dumb ****s). There's a band I looked up called M.I.A. who started off in the file sharing networks. Please offer up an example of any failed organization selling any form of information (game, music, literature, news, etc) which had 1) a demand for it, 2) an option to buy, 3) no DRM and/or filtered through some *free* network. Sure I can dig up a LOT of much better examples.
Only, Croteam is far from starting out, and needs the cash to feed themselves and their family.

Quote:
Please, just one ... I beg you. I want one because I can't find any. I can only find -FAILED- ONES WHO FORCE DRM ON THEIR CUSTOMERS. I turn away from products with DRM. Want nothing to do with them.
Unless you can prove that Steam bricks your hardware, you are in no position to whine.
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Old 11-26-2009, 02:40 AM   #334   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: STEAM only?

So ... what you're telling me VV is that you can't come up with a single failed example?

That's fine.

I'm not out of touch with reality, reality has a lot of fun examples supporting my claims. Little miss straw hat can't point out one. Give me one, please.
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Old 11-26-2009, 02:51 AM   #335   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: STEAM only?

Failed examples of what?

Edit : Oh nevermind, you ignored my post, which shows me that you would rather dig your heels in the sand and pretend that points against your argument didn't happen. Perfect!

If you really want to see the folly of arguing against any and all forms of DRM, and not just the maliciously designed ones, you should look no further than the Dreamcast. One of the contributing factors to its death is the fact one can easily burn copies of their games with a boot program patched in. There's a big difference between trusting the customer not to be potential criminals, and being balls-to-the-wall stupid and completely forgoing DRM. Times have changed, right now, the best we can hope for is a compromise, and when it comes to games, a DRM system that does not refuse to install your game if disc burning programs are installed, a DRM system that does not install rootkit software without your knowledge that could compromise your system security or brick your hardware and a DRM system that does not limit the number of times you can activate your game.

Someday you will learn that not everything you want can or will be delivered to you on a silver platter. In the real world, one where us adults live in, we make compromises and we are happy for it.

Last edited by Valerie Valens; 11-26-2009 at 03:19 AM.
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Old 11-26-2009, 06:56 AM   #336   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: STEAM only?

I fail to see where I asked for anything to be served on a silver platter. In regards to the Dreamcast, I'd say it's a product in the wrong market or there's more to the story. Glad to see you making an effort to play along and not be a complete douche.

We have the infrastructure where it's easy enough to have steam without the DRM. Want to play online and don't have a registered key for whatever reason? No issue, buy a key.

The irony with DRM is it simply ends up costing more money both in the cost of the technology and lost in potential revenue than to not have it at all.

If I went to a LAN party with an easily copied game and shared it with 5 people, that increases your potential customer base by 5. If 1 or 2 like it so much and find the only way to play on the online registered servers is with a registered key and it was an easy & painless process to acquire one with the pirated copy they have, you now have 1 or 2 new customers. If this game were locked down and not easily sharable, unless your crack marketing team happened to be throwing fliers all over the place, they may never of heard of it and you may never of got either of those sales.

There are people who simply don't care and won't ever buy, so why care about those types. Why penalize the 90-85% of the rest of your fans with pointless crap.

More or less I'm arguing the point that DRM this day and age is ridiculous. If there were an option with Steam to be DRM-less, then I'd be arguing towards using it. Not advocating piracy, I am condoning the use of DRM and stating that it hurts the consumer and creates a loss of profit.
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:31 AM   #337   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: STEAM only?

You really have no idea what you are talking about, have you?

I have talked with the guys at Croteam regarding the DRM and keeping them informed of Zeb89. The DRM SS HD uses on top of Steam is coded fairly smartly and will keep the crackers restless at night for a good few months. Meanwhile, all legit customers will have to do is to purchase from the Steam stores and download the game.

You have to come to terms with the fact that games nowadays will have to phone home. Ask any of the guys at the ReclaimYourGame Forums These guys are campaigning against DRM in games and software that actually harm your computer. Do note that they do not post the same screenshot ad nauseum, and then whine about the same self-created issues over and over without looking for a solution.

Steam does not harm your computer, that's a fact. Any statements otherwise is nothing less than pure tinfoil hattery.

PS : People like you actually harm our cause of campaigning against harmful DRM, because companies who made SecuROM or StarForce can just point at you for reasons why people who are against DRM are nutters or even pirates in disguise. That image will stick with you even if you are a legit customer.

Last edited by Valerie Valens; 11-26-2009 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:54 AM   #338   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: STEAM only?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valerie Valens View Post
Steam does not harm your computer, that's a fact. Any statements otherwise is nothing less than pure tinfoil hattery.

Steam will ruin you computer, thats a fact... Its to moist, hot and wet... ...

But I really dont have anything bad to say about Steam, but I do have about using third/fourth party programs just to run a program...
Its a good idea, but you have to install tons of programs and then use their launcher...
Lets say : Firewall (1 or more), AntiVirus (1 or more), NetFrameWork, Java, Flash, Nero, Jasc Software (PSP or PhotoShop), WINDOWS Pffpt!, Steam -> and so on and so on... ALL these programs use Processes and CPU/Mem resources ALL the time...
Now you tell me HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH ???
You have to install tons of junk just to get something running... ...
What ever happened to 120Meg Win98 compared to bloatware 4-6 Gig Win Vista ??? They all look the same and do the same, no difference...


***sigh***, just letting off Steam...he he

I will wait for the Editor to be released before buying the game because Im mostly waiting for that, and because Im pauper at the moment...
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:57 AM   #339   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: STEAM only?

LOL! I c whut u did thar! XD

There is a lot more going on behind the scenes code-wise that you cannot see. Besides, in the age of computers being farted out with 4 gigs of RAM, 40-80 MB of RAM useage is nothing! Hell, Firefox uses almost as much even without addons.
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:47 AM   #340   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: STEAM only?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ougabooga View Post
zx

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It WAS Already pirated & obviously NOT stopped from being Pirate shared! As a
long time SS fan & some1 that Likes "CHOICE" i PREFER to buy retail with the option of "entering" my cd/dvd key into my steam account. I want a "PHYSICAL" copy in my hands, NoCD/DVD crk's will ALWAYS exist & so will piracy.If the game has MP & it is fun then ppl will BUY IT !! Steam hasn't stopped 1 ounce of piracy, all they have stopped is Me from buying into their "OVERPRICED" scheme of things.Look @ PKR, what a JOKE & have ppl been refunded for that BS? BUT if i have a retail COPY & your game is CRAP i WILL RETURN it PRONTO.
I have a few steam games BUT i should have been allowed to add ALL the games steam offers that i have already bought on cd/dvd but they don't allow me.
They want $$ for stuff i already paid & can show PROOF i did.
They always are more pricey then retail & will remain that way cause in a way they ARE a monopoly.
I don't hate steam, i just don't like it.

Seems that things like steam & microsoft gears their product towards the LAZY & Stupid, so the stupid that can't think will say "WOW" this thing updates me game for me cause i am retard & can't.

Sorry if you feel offended but if you are offended then i MUST have stricken a cord of trueth in you (you being WHO ever feels offended)
no offence but you're pretty stupid to misunderstand my post and to post something like that. stupid or willingly ignorant.

to spell it out for you again, i didn't say it hadn't been pirated. i said it was more of a hastle to pirate when something has DRM. for the pirate, not for the crackers.

to have to risk getting fed a virus or malware infected file.
to have to risk being unable to play online.
to have to risk being unable to patch the game.
to have to risk getting banned from steam (not sure Valve do that, but obviously you've seen what Microsoft have done).
to have to risk getting a good ways into the game and running into a bug left purposefully there.

trust me when i say that some of these things will *discourage* piracy. not stop everyone of course, but stop some, because honestly some people are going to look at the risks and further steps involved and just go 'eh, i'd rather spend the $20 and not have to deal with that'.

technically you can't prevent your game from being pirated. you can make it harder though and that will reduce how many people actually pirate it.

if you pirate a $20 game i don't care your reasoning. it's $20.

and just a heads up, it's up to the publishers, not Valve, to decide if they want to allow you to add your store bought games into steam. Prey, Fear 2, UT3 and Serious Sam HD all have or will allow for it. Valve don't force people to let you do that. they don't force people to use Steamworks.

because they aren't the horrible monopoly you seem to think they are.

Last edited by plagiarize; 11-26-2009 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:26 AM   #341   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: STEAM only?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valerie Valens View Post
LOL! I c whut u did thar! XD

There is a lot more going on behind the scenes code-wise that you cannot see. Besides, in the age of computers being farted out with 4 gigs of RAM, 40-80 MB of RAM useage is nothing! Hell, Firefox uses almost as much even without addons.

...

Yeh, but all in all it adds up...

Sometimes the computer would freeze just to think about something... Sorta like me...LOL...
Just standing there in one spot thinking on what to do next...ha ha...
Now, add all the time Ive wasted on thinking, then subtract all that Ive accomplished and how much of time did I really waste on nothingness ??? ...
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Old 11-26-2009, 02:06 PM   #342   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: STEAM only?

I like where this thread is going.

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Old 11-26-2009, 05:24 PM   #343   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: STEAM only?

Everyone has made their case, so now I think it is time to agree to disagree and let the matter rest.
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Old 08-19-2013, 06:18 AM   #344   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: STEAM only?

yay, it's over & i'am a steam convert.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:01 AM   #345   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: STEAM only?

Ain't it funny how we learn to tolerate DRM as long as it also provides good features

In a few months I'll have been using Steam for about 4 years... Funny how far it's come since then.

I still remember the old fugly interface. (At the time I actually thought the current one looked weird when I first saw it, hehe.)
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:40 AM   #346   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: STEAM only?

I liked the old interface, though I've come to appreciate the features it has now, so I couldn't ever get back to using that.
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