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Old 04-14-2006, 03:49 AM   #1   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Like Garry's Mod? Cough up the dough.

http://www.steamreview.org/?p=68
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Garry’s Mod, the Source-powered physics sandbox famed across the games industry, is to be sold over Steam for $10 US, with profits split evenly between Garry and his team of contributors and Valve.
I find Garry's Mod somewhat amusing. There's no way in bloody hell I'd pay for it.

This should be interesting to watch. It's certainly not the first mod to go commercial but GMod seemed a very unlikely candidate. Having an established paid online distribution mechanism available to mod teams willing to make a game of sufficient quality sure seems to lower the barrier-to-entry for the games market. But the expectations when paying for a commercial product are much higher than when donating money to your favorite mod to say nothing of downloading it for free.

The most interesting part is this:

Quote:
Selling the mod has had one particularly interesting and unusual effect: despite having no license, Garry will receive the uncompiled Source Engine code, blurring the lines between a mod and full game as well as overcoming the limitations of the free SDK. While Valve’s increased take of the profits from each sale will eventually overtake the cost of a license, we are nevertheless seeing a new entry path for indie developers form, one where they can use Valve’s top-of-the-line game and communication technology without footing the usual bills, at least in any traditional sense.
It makes me wonder what sort of deal Black Widow Games struck.
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Old 04-14-2006, 04:37 AM   #2   Add To Ignore List  
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I'm just glad I've got the latest version and that I won't have to pay anything to update

Plus that fact that it's in $'s and not £'s

At least it's a whole mod. It's not as bad as Bethesda making you pay money to d/l little things like These. Sure they're only around $2 but still..

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Old 04-14-2006, 03:05 PM   #3   Add To Ignore List  
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Hmm.. coincidentally, I was up until 6am playing Garry's mod with a friend
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Old 04-14-2006, 08:03 PM   #4   Add To Ignore List  
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Gmod gets boring awfully quickly, I wouldn't even bother downloading it again. Really, a sandbox isn't worth $10 and it won't be long before there's a million clones all for free.
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Old 04-14-2006, 09:08 PM   #5   Add To Ignore List  
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I seriously doubt there'll be a clone of Garry's Mod any time soon. He dominates the scene, anyone else that attempts it will fail miserably..

That being said, I'm not happy about this.
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Old 04-14-2006, 09:21 PM   #6   Add To Ignore List  
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It's $10. Because supporting independent developers is a bad thing, huh?

I'm hardly against this just because I feel the man has worked hard enough to get what he deserves. Compensation for entertainment.

If it was $30, I'd be pissed.
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Old 04-14-2006, 09:40 PM   #7   Add To Ignore List  
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I agree with MEA.
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Old 04-14-2006, 11:38 PM   #8   Add To Ignore List  
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Why is it ok for his mod to cost $10 but not anyone elses? Mods were meant to be just that -- modifications to the original game, not for profit.

This goes hand in hand with the release of over priced episodic content for future Steam games.
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Old 04-15-2006, 12:00 AM   #9   Add To Ignore List  
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Dont pay for it. I say good for him. This is one of the few things I appreciate about steam. There is less and less room for independant developers in the industry, and even less of a means of advertising/distrobution. Let alone to have a major company essentially flip the bill for an independant project. Personally, I wouldnt pay for something like Garys mod, but if NS: Source ever comes into fruition, I would gladly fork over a few dollars less then an average retail game for it.

Unfortunatly steam sucks on every other level and I wouldnt support anything using the platform until Valve gets thier shit together.
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Old 04-15-2006, 12:47 AM   #10   Add To Ignore List  
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First off, Valve is giving Garry a full license of the HL2 engine.. so it won't be "just a mod" anymore, in that sense.

You ask why Gmod can cost $10 but nothing else? Because of quality. I've played a handful of mods for HL2. The ones that get out of Beta aren't always the best. Garry's mod is quite a fine piece of work. Garry's mod actually sorta allows mods itself. Mods for HL2 such as Sourceforts are basically obsolete, because you can code the same damn thing in Garry's mod, so the foundation is already there.

Weird and quirky stuff can be made, too.. Melon race for instance.

Garry's mod already has dedication. Most mods fall dead after a few months, but Gmod is still aspiring and growing. So the dedication is there, and personally that's what I want to see in a mod. CS was a completely free mod. Very popular. valve gave the dev guys a job. The mod, developers, and valve all benefitted. and the game spawned from there.

Also, it's an added plus for Valve, because it shows off the physics and scalability of the mod completely

In short: If you don't want to pay for quality mods, then support shitty mods. Nuff said. If you love a mod, then pay $10 to watch it survive
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Old 04-15-2006, 04:02 AM   #11   Add To Ignore List  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterEvilAce
First off, Valve is giving Garry a full license of the HL2 engine.. so it won't be "just a mod" anymore, in that sense.
Ah, but that's just the thing. They're *not* giving him a license. There are giving him access to the source code but the game is still a mod. It requires that you already own a Steam integrated source engine game (I stress Steam integrated because V:TM Bloodlines won't cut it.)

So it isn't that GMod has been promoted to a full game that you now have to pay for (like CS, DoD, Red Orchestra, etc.) but rather: it's still a mod but now one that is being sold as a commercial product. Which as I said earlier, caries a whole different set of expectations than 'a mod', even one you really like and donate money to.

This makes it somewhat unique, AFAICT. There were what were essentially mods for Quake that were sold at retail (Q!Zone, Shrak), but they were essentially unofficial expansion packs. I can't think of any other mod that has been sold commercially. Most game EULAs strictly forbid it.

If the GMod team can deliver a quality product and live up to the responsibilities that come along with selling it, Great. I plan to purchase They Hunger: Lost Souls if the price is reasonable; from what I understand it will be a full game, we'll see.
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Old 04-15-2006, 04:06 AM   #12   Add To Ignore List  
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garry getting full source -> editing more than just SDK stuff -> makes it a full game on it's own.

It becomes a separate game basically. it is the equivilant to Half-life being based off of Quake, yet half life isn't considered a mod.
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Old 04-15-2006, 04:38 AM   #13   Add To Ignore List  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterEvilAce
garry getting full source -> editing more than just SDK stuff -> makes it a full game on it's own.

It becomes a separate game basically. it is the equivilant to Half-life being based off of Quake, yet half life isn't considered a mod.
Well, no. Half-Life didn't require you to own a copy of Quake. GMod will require you to own another source engine game. It may seem like we're splitting hairs here as anyone interested in GMod probably already owns HL2 or CS:S (or DoD:S, etc.). But consider someone who owns none of those games and hears that there's this cool physics sandbox game for $10. They'll be sorely disappointed to find out they have to purchase another game before they can get it. I'm not sure how big that market is. Probably close to non-existent.

Now, the whole point of course was to incentivize further development of GMod well beyond what the developers were willing to do as a free mod. Or even were even capable of now that they have the code; which is really what makes this situation different than simply asking for, err, requiring donations. If there are enough people willing pay for further development then it's mostly win-win.

But this situation does make GMod somewhat unique, as far as I can see.
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Old 04-15-2006, 08:34 AM   #14   Add To Ignore List  
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Hmm, it seems the shortest distance between two points is an angle.
Interesting way to generate money, Im curious to see what may grow off this if it should take hold.
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Old 04-15-2006, 09:23 AM   #15   Add To Ignore List  
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I've met homeless ****s that can shell out 10 bucks for a couple of bottles of MD 20/20.

And yet, somehow, nerds with costly PC's capable of playing Half-Life 2 bitch about it.

A****inmazing.
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Old 04-15-2006, 12:00 PM   #16   Add To Ignore List  
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shhhhhhh...if we stay quite they may start paying us to play it.
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Old 04-15-2006, 01:08 PM   #17   Add To Ignore List  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oswald
I've met homeless ****s that can shell out 10 bucks for a couple of bottles of MD 20/20.

And yet, somehow, nerds with costly PC's capable of playing Half-Life 2 bitch about it.

A****inmazing.
Yes, and I would be homeless if I paid for every quality mod that I've ever had.
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Old 04-15-2006, 01:24 PM   #18   Add To Ignore List  
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The guy worked hard and is being rewarded for his efforts, whats the problem?

Most people hate paying for something that they used to get for free.
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Old 04-15-2006, 03:45 PM   #19   Add To Ignore List  
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He found a way to make some dough to pay the bills from something he enjoys. Good for him.
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Old 04-15-2006, 03:54 PM   #20   Add To Ignore List  
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Reminds me of when i did tech support. got a call from some guy who bought his kids 2, $3000 computers, then proceeded over to the bargain bin for games. Then wondered why they 5 year old games did run well on teh computers. (and no, they were good classics either)
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Old 04-15-2006, 04:19 PM   #21   Add To Ignore List  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viper45
Yes, and I would be homeless if I paid for every quality mod that I've ever had.
And for all the time those people put into making those quality mods, do they not deserve more than the rare 'omg, thx' email?
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Old 04-15-2006, 04:31 PM   #22   Add To Ignore List  
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I can't wait for when we have to sit for twenty minutes and watch commercials for Pepsi, Always, Ariel, MacDonalds and MaxFactor, followed by commercials of Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez saying how much they enjoy the said game/expansion/mod and casually mention that you should also check out their new movie Gigli 2: Yes we actually made a sequel. Of course, you can't skip any of this. Then the next screen opens, and the game says that there are updates available. You click on it, only to realize that each of the downloads will cost you. This includes patches, after all, the developers work hard on it, and it's not like the publisher can pay them, the publisher is actually very poor. The only way they're able to survive is to put the ads for the aforementioned products on every square inch of the gameworld. You don't think it's OK? Don't worry, because their 2 PR's Roozbeh Ashtyani and Pete Hines, will explain to "y'all, how it's, y'know, like, y'know, good, but they, like, can't explain to y'all why, y'know, because, y'know, it's not, like, y'know, y'all would understand, y'know".

Gameplay, style, innovation or originality, story and character not included. They are also not sold separately. In fact, they are not sold at all. If you want to get them, you'll have to buy one of the old games from E-Bay, but be warned, they don't have HDR v5, nor Super-duper 1024x AA or 512 AF, nor simulation of electrons circling around the Fe atom, not to mention a 32 channel digital surround sound system, support for Holodeck, teleport, Jar-Jar Binks and Leonardo Di Caprio.

Edit: Actually, Garry's mod doesn't bother me, since I don't have HL 2 (and don't intend to), it's what it'll turn into. It all starts well, but it'll eventually end up with utter crap.
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Old 04-15-2006, 04:33 PM   #23   Add To Ignore List  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimli
Gameplay, style, innovation or originality, story and character not included. They are also not sold separately. In fact, they are not sold at all. If you want to get them, you'll have to buy one of the old games from E-Bay, but be warned, they don't have HDR v5, nor Super-duper 1024x AA or 512 AF, nor simulation of electrons circling around the Fe atom, not to mention a 32 channel digital surround sound system, support for Holodeck, teleport, Jar-Jar Binks and Leonardo Di Caprio.
Funny that you mention that, because in recent years, some inredibly original and awesome titles came out.

Psychonauts and Beyond Good and Evil are both instant classics.

*Edited to appease Monkeh
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Old 04-15-2006, 04:37 PM   #24   Add To Ignore List  
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And both sold extremely well. Better than WoW, Oblivion, Doom 3, etc.
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Old 04-15-2006, 04:43 PM   #25   Add To Ignore List  
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psychonauts actualy sold relatively poor
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Old 04-15-2006, 04:45 PM   #26   Add To Ignore List  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimli
And both sold extremely well. Better than WoW, Oblivion, Doom 3, etc.
If you want to play the game of 'sales figures = long term remembrance', let me throw a few your way that were inventive and did well:

Katamari Damacy
Shadow of the Colossus
Warioware
Warioware: Twisted

And all those games that you fonldy remember and remembered because they are talked about after their Golden Age has passed and stories of their awesomeness keeps them sought after and demanded.

In ten years, people will still be pushing for copies of STRIFE while Doom 3 is forgotten.
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Old 04-15-2006, 05:05 PM   #27   Add To Ignore List  
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Unfortunately, I don't have these games, because I don't have a console. Sorry, not enough money, and since I'm not making any money, my parents get to decide what I can buy. So I can't say if they are good or not.

How many games do you think you'll get in the future that are actually awesome? I have a feeling that the trend is that we'll have less and less of them.

Also, if you ask young people today about some of the older games that were actually good, they have for the most part either never heard of them, or if they have, they think of them as "that game that my parents are talking about all the time".

Also, for example, on the Fallout forums (NMA), there's only 4000 people registered, which I think is pretty dismal. X-COM has a total of 12000 on two forums, though a good part are registered on both, plus Strategycore has th UFO:A... series and Silent Storm, so I'd say the realistic number is 8000-9000. To me that doesn't look too well either, for such great games. Terra Arcanum has less than 4000. Far Cry on the other hand has 458000 registered members.

Sorry, I just can't stop thinking how the industry is going Hollywood.
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Old 04-15-2006, 05:23 PM   #28   Add To Ignore List  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimli
Unfortunately, I don't have these games, because I don't have a console. Sorry, not enough money, and since I'm not making any money, my parents get to decide what I can buy. So I can't say if they are good or not.

How many games do you think you'll get in the future that are actually awesome? I have a feeling that the trend is that we'll have less and less of them.
The same number that has been in the past. In the past, tons of shitty games came out mon ami. One look at SomethingAwful's Rom Pit will showcase that tons of shitty, horrible games came out at one point.

Hell, how many games of all the games you own do you consider classic? I have probably around 200-some games for various platforms and maybe two dozen of them I would install and play again at the drop of a hat.

And to be optimistic, I think things can only get better when EA, the largest publisher since God decides to invest more into original entries versus sequels.*

*Yes, I am looking for the news page about this. EA basically said they'd allocate 40% of their development to be of original material as opposed to 20% or something. LeChimp knows about it, bug him too.
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Old 04-15-2006, 08:12 PM   #29   Add To Ignore List  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oswald
And for all the time those people put into making those quality mods, do they not deserve more than the rare 'omg, thx' email?
Mods are individual projects, done for fun.

I've made some awesome Flash animations and put them on the net. Well, at this point, it sounds like a good idea that I should make those pay-per-view. Screw free entertainment stemming from individual projects.

Following this logic, the following websites should not be free:
www.homestarrunner.com
www.askaninja.com
www.stuffonmycat.com (lolllll)
www.hlcomic.com
www.penny-arcade.com

Along with basically any other (currently) free entertainment.

Heck, why don't we pay for our TV/internet service, and then pay for each individual show we watch/website we visit! Sounds like a deal to me.
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Old 04-15-2006, 09:53 PM   #30   Add To Ignore List  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viper45
Mods are individual projects, done for fun.

I've made some awesome Flash animations and put them on the net. Well, at this point, it sounds like a good idea that I should make those pay-per-view. Screw free entertainment stemming from individual projects.

Heck, why don't we pay for our TV/internet service, and then pay for each individual show we watch/website we visit! Sounds like a deal to me.
Don't be surprised if in 10 years your paying for more stuff on the internet then your used to.

I fail to see how paying for Garry's Mod is the slippery slope to the financial equivilant of 1984. You know what the difference between a mod and an expansion is. You pay for an expansion while the people who make mod just hopes someone remembers it in a couple years so he didn't waste his time.

The good thing about Steam releasing games likes Dystopia and Garry's Mod is that it is a cheap way to get your game into circulation. No retailer would sell a game for $2, and the creators of Dystopia would have probably gone bankrupt making a game worth $30 that no one would buy anyway. Applications like Steam could possibly be a way for more developers to get into game development, which I think the industry needs.

Now if only Steam would be a little more offline friendly.

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