did croteam ever share the tech demo?

[RanCorX2]

as title says, did they ever share a tech demo of ss2? i saw a video on youtube, but that's all i've seen of it.

[Serious Sam(BG)]

Can you share a link to this video?

[FreekNik]

He most likely meant this one: YouTube Video:
Serious Sam 2 - Engine Capabilities Demo

[Serious Sam(BG)]

I remember that one... It was like the best thing I ever seen back then. Amazing graphics, beutiful ancient cities, everything looked perfect... And then the game came out...

[Discy]

It actually looks really close to the final game, save for some stuff that was scrapped. If you mean there's not a lot to explore and invisible walls I agree, but the graphics are about on par with the final release.

[Serious Sam(BG)]

Yeah, the graphics are OK, maybe even better than Far Cry, DooM 3 and Half-Life 2...

[RanCorX2]

yep that's the one.

also you guys seen this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh5Oc772_OQ

[Solais]

Yeah, but that was a fan made level. But I personally liked it. Some fans should make a similar level for SS3 too.

[RanCorX2]

a well made fan level, reminded me of the tfe tech level.

the russian site has some cool levels / mods, found a level conversion from next encounter for ss2.

best thing about serious sam, there seems to be an endless amount of custom levels, campaigns etc to play. never known any other fps with so much dedication from modders, well maybe source games and unreal, but serious sam games have awesome campaigns though with loads of replay value.

[Solais]

Probably, but personally, I think its modding/mapping community is really small, especially for the newer games. Most of the stuff exists for SS1, which is pretty much an obsolete game.

[Discy]

Stop saying "obsolete" and "nobody cares". You don't know what you're talking about.

[Solais]

SE1 source code is out, and people can do whatever they want with it, while SS1 is considered to be SSHD by Croteam. It is obsolete.

And as far as I'm concerned, it should be considered that, because the series will only move forward, and eventually, it will leave most of its old fans behind. I mean, do you even know what's in the Russian community? Many of them don't even consider anything besides SS1 as "real SS games". If that is the case, then let them have SE1 and SS1, while everything else move forwards.

[Jetroid]

SSHD plays very weirdly to me. Everything just feels slide-y and unsatisfying compared to the classics. I think it is a disservice to considered SSHD the canonical version.

[Discy]

Originally Posted by Solais

SE1 source code is out, and people can do whatever they want with it, while SS1 is considered to be SSHD by Croteam. It is obsolete.

And as far as I'm concerned, it should be considered that, because the series will only move forward, and eventually, it will leave most of its old fans behind. I mean, do you even know what's in the Russian community? Many of them don't even consider anything besides SS1 as "real SS games". If that is the case, then let them have SE1 and SS1, while everything else move forwards.

Croteam does't define what is obsolete and what isn't, its players do. As long as people are still playing and creating content for Serious Sam 1 it's relevant, and there's still people preferring classic over HD. Furthermore, by calling it obsolete you're saying to us still involved with Serious Sam 1 that we're obsolete. Way to insult the fanbase. For a Croteam representative you are holding some controversial and more to the point, insulting views. Still caring about Serious Sam 1 and caring about newer games aren't mutually exclusive and there's no fucking harm in creating content for the classics.

Originally Posted by Jetroid

SSHD plays very weirdly to me. Everything just feels slide-y and unsatisfying compared to the classics. I think it is a disservice to considered SSHD the canonical version.

I agree. The gameplay of SSHD feels floaty weird compared to SS1.

[Targ3t]

Originally Posted by Solais

it will leave most of its old fans behind

let's see if the kingdom survives another wave

[NoMercy Rider]

Not to mention the crazy gravity. Some of the more memorable battles in FE/SE took place in weird gravity sections. And the HD version just didn't feel the same without them. It's a shame that Croteam has pretty much abandoned that feature for future games, since it was such a defining feature. I understand that it's tough to implement with things like ragdoll physics. But there has got to be a way

And I'll be quite honest and blunt, I am tired of Solais acting like the voice of the whole Serious Sam community and dictating what is obsolete and throws around lofty claims that he embodies all how Croteam feels, just because he works there. I agree with Discy. The fanbase defines whether or not a game is obsolete or not, even if Croteam "truly" feels it was retired with the release of SSHD.

[Solais]

Sure, but when there's a whole fandom only focusing on the old, but not the new, then why should there be new games?

But anyways, if that's how you feel, then I'll stop being the representative. There's no need for communication, after all, then. Not to mention the whole change of perspective. I guess the moment I started working for them, I started to talk for them as well, instead of being part of the community. This is why I didn't want to be revealed too early.

[RanCorX2]

looking through the downlods on the russia vk page, i found plenty of non ss1 maps etc.

[NoMercy Rider]

Originally Posted by Solais

Sure, but when there's a whole fandom only focusing on the old, but not the new, then why should there be new games?

That is a very narrow-minded way of thinking. Just because people prefer the classics does not mean they don't support Croteam's newest titles. There are a lot of fans that flock to the older games for modding/mapping because there is a smaller learning curve, there is oodles of documentation, and you don't need to know modelling software to succeed. It's a shame that Croteam has neglected documentation for the most recent releases, but I do get it. Since they aren't really concerned with licensing their engine anymore, documentation is really an afterthought. I think there should be pride that there is still an active community 15 years after release. To say that those mappers are obsolete because the game was replaced by a newer, prettier looking game is just rude.

But anyways, if that's how you feel, then I'll stop being the representative. There's no need for communication, after all, then. Not to mention the whole change of perspective. I guess the moment I started working for them, I started to talk for them as well, instead of being part of the community. This is why I didn't want to be revealed too early.

I'm not saying you need to drop everything that you say. I'm just saying, if I were in your shoes, I would do a better job of giving thorough thought in regards to how I am phrasing something. You are very quick to say things like "Croteam feels this way" and maybe that is true. But I would be hesitant to say those kind of things unless you are 100% sure you have Croteam's backing on that statement. From my perspective, it seems that you are projecting your own personal opinion of something to be the vision of the entirety of Croteam. I'm just wondering if folks are aware that you are perpetuating very unpopular opinions and attributing it to Croteam. If Croteam truly feels that SS classics are obsolete, then that is a shame.

[Jetroid]

Something I've seen moderators on other forums do is use a different font colour to distinguish them acting in official capacity to when they are just shooting the breeze. Perhaps Solais could use some form of similar system in the future to remove these confusions.

[Solais]

My opinions are of my own, not Croteam's. And it might be rude, but that's what I'm thinking. I personally feel that the view of "all other SS game is not real" is rude to the efforts of CT themselves. They might not feel like that, it is only my opinion, and personally, it annoys me.

The only thing what is somewhat true is that SSHD is in a way considered to be the replacement for SS1. Every old game that is not supported by CT is in a way, given to the fans: That was supposed to be the purpose of Revolution, whatever became of it, and that was also the reason SS2 was updated by DwK, voluntarily. SSHD and SS3 is still CT supported, though in what way, I can't talk about it yet.

I do like Jetroid's idea of the Blizzard Blue Text. I'll use that from now on for official stuff.

[Jetroid]

Originally Posted by Solais

I do like Jetroid's idea of the Blizzard Blue Text. I'll use that from now on for official stuff.

(Might be a good idea to add as such in your signature so that it has meaning outside of this thread!)

[Discy]

Originally Posted by Solais

Sure, but when there's a whole fandom only focusing on the old, but not the new, then why should there be new games?

Originally Posted by Solais

I personally feel that the view of "all other SS game is not real" is rude to the efforts of CT themselves. They might not feel like that, it is only my opinion, and personally, it annoys me.

But that's the entire problem. There's no "whole fandom only focusing on the old", you're plain wrong. Just because some of us prefer the classic over HD, and just because some don't like the direction Sam3 took doesn't mean we only focus on the old. The Steam Workshop for HD and Sam3 both have more content in five years since their respective release than the classics had in almost ten. I don't want you to stop having an opinion, I want you to take a real hard look at the evidence before you (unwittingly) insult us.

[Serious Sam(BG)]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP20Olb6HuY

[Solais]

Sorry, I guess just some news from the Russian community kinda pissed me off. I know that HD and SS3 got a bunch of content on the Workshop, but the fact that some people (not ALL, mind you, I know a few people from the Russian community who work with newer games) think like that (and some of those Russian friends often refer to it as "most of the Russian community") makes (btw, did you notice that whenever you read a sentence in brackets you forget what the original sentence was about?) me annoyed.

[FreekNik]

Originally Posted by Solais

I personally feel that the view of "all other SS game is not real" is rude to the efforts of CT themselves.

To be honest, I wonder where did you even get that opinion in the first place, 'cause it's not that true. I suppose you jumped to that conclusion just because some SSHD/3 mappers - offended by some critics coming from the old Classic mappers who like to be straight when it comes to quality and fresh diversity of the content - said it in relation to modding scene, not the general franchise. The community I grew in and know very good is pretty diverse and not that close-minded as you've "heard" when it comes to general opinion about the series. I suppose you were mislead by modding community and its inner controversies and opinions on mapping/modding principles, especially when you take SeriousSite which became a mainly modding fan-site with it own mindset and 'family' these days. It still sticks to SS1 modding, yes, but that grows from a lot of factors, some of which were already mentioned above by other guys. It would be offensive and inappropriate to think that it transmits the voice of the entire Russian community.

Sure, there are some people thinking that Classics were better and all the other newer Croteam games somehow went downhill in comparison, BUT there are people who prefer SS2 or HD-remakes/SS3 equally for what they are as well and it's ok. There could be single dicks and jerks in any community, but generally, it's all still very different and more complex than you think or heard.

Anyway, if anything, you certainly should not be that easily offended by the fact there are people who prefer old games over the new either because of 'muh nostalgia' feel or easier entry level of modding; it's not very professional of you as a CT member even if it's your personal opinion, y'know. I'd say, on the contrary, that developer should take some notes instead and try to track and understand the reason these opinions and preferences exist in some form or another in the first place, and try to find a solution to fix some problems the community experiences with newer games. I mean, seriously - it's not people's fault that they like some thing over another, they must've some valid points behind their decisions. And I think it's clear that newer SS games have more problems and caused more controverses in years that led people to think that way. It means there's still a way for improvement - ignoring and insulting some part of the global community just because it has its opinion would be plain wrong. And if anything, the Russian part of this comminity has a lot of different opinions and preferences in that regard, while people still love and adore everything that comes out of CT's hands no matter of their feels regarding the way the franchise has grown and some individual games in general.

[Solais]

Yes, I know I know. As Alen always tells me "you think too much into everything", and I should really stop doing that. It really only came from one opinion I heard -months- ago, and it just boiled up from that, because I just worry too much.

There's a sort of pressure in this thing which I guess I haven't learn to control yet. Like... you have all these opinions about the games, and basically there being three separate groups within the "greater fandom", based on their adoration of the 3 main games that were released. And then I look in the future, and I see how the series is planned to grow (because it WILL grow), and I'm getting worried.

Besides there being a lot of vocal minority hate going towards SamVR, I'm worried about the next entries (yes, plural) of the series, and I just get worried even more. Will SS4 please the SS1 fans? The SS2 fans? The SS3 fans? Do the fans want too much from the next game, wanting features from SS1 that will likely -never- come back, like directional gravity, SDK, and the like? What will happen when SS4 is properly revealed? What will happen when its features are known? Will I see that utter backlash towards them like with SS3's modern features, just because CT dares to change the formula up somewhat? I think this worry is something the veteran CT people have learned to ignore or control, but for me, it's hard. I guess it's because I come from a fan standpoint, which is sorta unique at CT at this point (besides DwK who was there for a few years now).

(Btw, shouldn't this be moved to Luxor, because it's personal?)

(Edit: Well sorta?)

[NoMercy Rider]

It is literally impossible to please everyone. Great developers understand this and just learn to (mostly) ignore the heated criticism. It's not worth losing sleep over something that you really don't have any control over, because no matter what you do, someone will hate the game. It's great to listen to feedback and genuinely consider ideas that have been suggested. But at the end of the day, Croteam needs to focus on making a game they are proud of, rather than trying to make everyone happy.

Sure, I'm in the camp that isn't impressed with SSVR and was really disappointed by the announcement. But hell, I'm not the one making the games and at the end of the day I still hope it does well.

[Discy]

You lost me at this part:

Originally Posted by Solais

Will I see that utter backlash towards them like with SS3's modern features, just because CT dares to change the formula up somewhat?

There may be more people who dislike reloading and iron sights compared to sprinting, but still minority.

[Solais]

That's actually the thing: When those features were originally announced, people everywhere were FURIOUS about it, here, on steam, all that.

Then after the game was released, most people seemed to have calmed down and even realized that these features are not bad.