New Weapons/Enemies - use cases?

[LarvaExotech]

Hello!

As we all know, Serious Sam: Revolution includes several new things to game, like new enemies and weapons. I have found out that new weapons have good quality and are ready to be used in game (though plasma thrower "boom" and fire sound effects made me feel like in 1995 game ).

I'd want to discuss what are use cases for new weapons? Because when mapmaking, mappers consider how to develop proper battles depending on player's equipment. For example you do not want to overwhelm player with many bio mechs if he has only rocket launcher, but sending several mechs to them is fine when they have cannon.

All weapons in SS have their purpose, while only shotgun and double shotgun being a "fillhole" weapons and you usually barely use them in late game. Anyway:

TommyGun is a good for killing weak enemies like zorgs, beheaded whatevers, anti-kamikaze tool.
Minigun is good as all-around weapon that is very ammo hungry.
Laser is an "addtional minigun" that uses different ammo - more devastation in your pockets.
Rocket Launcher is good for mass enemies and armored enemies.
Grenade Launcher is similar to Rocket Launcher but with heavier damage (pumpkinheads die from one grenade and two rockets).
Flamethrower is short range mass killer for charging enemies like kleers or pumpkinheads.
Sniper Rifle is good for long range weak targets.
Cannon is good for erasing a whole "row" of skeletons/bulls charging you and eliminating large threat like major biomech with one shot.

When you watch some serious difficulty playthroughs you can see how experienced players are swapping weapons depending on situations and utilizes all arsenal.

The question is, what are typical use-cases for Ghostbuster, Minelayer and Plasma Thrower weapons? From what I've tested and watch on youtube videos, ghostbuster seems to be like a 3x damage minigun with short range, and plasmathrower sits somewhere near rocket launcher but with greater fire rate. Minelayer could be possibly used to "prepare" room before picking that ammo pack which spawns horders of enemies?

I'd love to listen to some tips how to utilize new weapons in custom maps, where in playing timeline they should be placed, what types of enemies and situations they are best to handle with and so. Should player have them before they got a minigun or perhaps new weapons are even stronger than cannon?

From what I've watched, Ghostbuster seems to be incredibly fun gun to use, but also incredibly powerful. Its like, you need two seconds of zapping bio mech to ground him? Maybe utilizing Ghostbuster as "Superweapon" like Sniper Rifle in South American campaing of SS:TSE? The Sniper Rifle is incredibly powerful there but ammo is very limited allowing you to use it only where you'd best need them? Or its better to just place a GhostBuster "after" minigun and treat it as regular weapon and let huge ammo cost to balance it out?

Plasma Launcher seems to be far superior than Rocket Launcher. I am afraid that it would spoil a game a bit, because having a rocket launcher you can handle 5 sirian werebulls charge (+ other shit) from large distance. If your player gets plasma launcher, I think you'd have to send 20 on them because Plasma Launcher oneshoots smaller things. Also the secondary attack from close distance sends all arachnoids, major biomechs and green andurans into their own version of valhalla with just one click.

I am also thinking how to utilize Minelayer as this is quite "special" weapon. Like in TSE when they added Sniper Rifle, they made sure that player will have a lot occasions to slay enemies that are "coincidently" placed miles away (hi there, valley of jaguar). I am thinking how I could make a player playing my map to "feel" minelayer, to give him/her occasions to utilize it nicely. Maybe a something like a corridor where enemies are charging at you from both sides (front and back), so you can block your back with mines and focus on front enemies. Or something that makes you have to lure stronger enemy into your minefield and send them to abyss? I've no idea how to utilize this weapon from mapper POV

Serious Sam original maps follows quite nicely a something that I used to call "a fireball design". This term I've used when I was developing an RPG game years ago (and no it did not succeed ) and it basically means "if your player is a sorcerer and just got access to an fireball, let him have fun by sending hordes of weak enemies versus him".

I'd love to listen about your experiences with new weapons and their use-cases.

[ZynX]

In my opinion the 3 new weapons fit the best in deathmatch levels for fighting with other players, since 2 of these are imported from a Serious Sam multiplayer mod, while in singleplayer I'd rather use the old classic ones.

Also I'd use the ghostbuster for example in tech and sci-fi levels, replacing the machine guns, just to give more of that feel, same with the Plasma Thrower.

The minelayer in my opinion is the most impractical weapon to use. The only way to use it in a campaign is to trap tunnels where enemies come from (for example the mines in the varkid caves in HL2EP2)

[Scratch]

Yeah, we still want to improve the minelayer. We've already improved the plasmathrower from the Warped mod because it was really really really bad (unpredictable).

The minelayer is actually also improved quite a bit in that regard, and works best in CTF, in my opinion.

[ZynX]

What I think would make the minelayer more useful is to make it shoot the mines further and reduce/remove the detonation waiting time.

Also, in SWDM there's an alt fire for the grenade launcher that launches green toxic grenades, why not implement that too, just for MP?

[LarvaExotech]

Originally Posted by Scratch

Yeah, we still want to improve the minelayer. We've already improved the plasmathrower from the Warped mod because it was really really really bad (unpredictable).

The minelayer is actually also improved quite a bit in that regard, and works best in CTF, in my opinion.

If you guys are tinkering with new weapons, i'd suggest replacing sound effects to better ones. GhostBuster is OK I think. Plasma Thrower has annoying sound when firing and Minelayer sounds seem to be an out of place and does not refer visual feedback at all :3

[ZynX]

Ye tru, note that these weapons were created a decade ago

[LarvaExotech]

Originally Posted by ZynX

Ye tru, note that these weapons were created a decade ago

I know but they are OK visually, just sound effects are weird. From what I have tested, I'd propose to tune up these weapons in SP/Coop a bit because with some testing I found that they could have some numbers altered.

The thing I missed when I was watching gameplay with new weapons is that player had serious damage powerup. After a bit of testing I found new weapons quite useless in real scenarios.

I think that Ghostbuster should be buffed up in SP/Coop to fill a niche "i want to destroy something really quickly, but with close range" - something like a flamer but with more damage and without AOE attack.

I am talking about new inventory because I am creating map pack to SS:R and I'd love to use new weapons