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Serious Sam 4 The place to talk about Croteam's next title: Serious Sam 4! What do you know? What do you hope to see in the next Sam game?

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Old 05-06-2016, 06:40 PM   #121   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Now this is the style of quoting which I like. Thanks for the answer, Jasser. Like this have what to think about.
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Old 05-06-2016, 11:59 PM   #122   Add To Ignore List  
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Like this have what to think about.
Yeah and there not it thought is not there
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Old 05-07-2016, 12:30 AM   #123   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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Originally Posted by Serious Sam(BG) View Post
Now this is the style of quoting which I like. Thanks for the answer, Jasser. Like this have what to think about.
Oh, then I will do it too.

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Originally Posted by Serious Sam(BG) View Post
So, the endless spawn of rocketeers, which make the game to feel really tedious is not a problem, but 9-10 spacemonkeys are game-breaking pain in the ass?
That was mentioned on the second page already, when we complained about lack of variety of foot soldiers:

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Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Firecrackers are fun because they shoot at the ground and you have to jump over their bullets. It's nothing special, but adds a bit of variety to the game, and forces you to use the jump more often. Shooting at hordes of rocketeeers all the time in SS3 got a bit boring, and firecrackers would mix it up a bit.
Let's continue...

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Originally Posted by Serious Sam(BG) View Post
There are three "main" boss battles, and two of them are just the same "boss" - the alcor class warship, and it's really just the same, and that is not a problem, but the same time old faces like the Highlander (or it's bride) are completely missing from the game and that's also not a problem, problem are the hitscan enemies.
Who ever said that ? Who ? I want a quote on that, because you keep shoving stuff in everyone's mouth here. And I even agree with you that repeating the warship battle was a bit lame. Instead of putting words in out mouth, simply start a topic that bothers you and we can discuss it. Boss battles are a whole new topic we haven't even touched.

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All of you, crybabies, want it more easy, more predictible, more easy to avoid.
This is just plain stupid, I can't say it in any other way, calling someone pointing out the flaws in gameplay and design and giving his suggestions a crybaby. You already called us sissies few pages ago. I mean... you aren't 12 or something ?

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Originally Posted by Serious Sam(BG) View Post
What is "Poor enemy design" anyway? Doesn't like the outfit? The look of the new enemies? No, it's all the attacks and behavior. All of you, crybabies, want it more easy, more predictible, more easy to avoid.
It's not about making the game easy, but making the gameplay more fun and fluid. Not making it easy to avoid, but giving you an option to do so, as a part of gameplay design. Basically the whole point of classic shooters like SS is movement and predictable behavior. If you watch the "Making of SS3" video, you can here a Croteam guy calling it "dance with the enemies".

Yes, attacks and behavior is more important than the looks, and predictable enemy patterns, attacks and behavior, is what makes it possible for CroTeam to have the full control of battles and enemy encounters, and an experienced player to control the battle while he is in it, or dance with the enemies like they called it.

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Old 05-07-2016, 04:31 AM   #124   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Serious Sam misses space coop levels.
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Old 05-09-2016, 08:49 AM   #125   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

The problem with these enemies. Well, imagine if you're playing 18+ rated games and then suddenly in one installment there is stuff you're not into. That's the problem.

There are several ways to make hitscan enemies dodgeable.

1. Make them "delayed hitscan". This means they fire in the spot they're aiming at 1 or so seconds later so you have tome to get out of the way.
2. Make them similar to like Alcor battleship's beam. This means that the hitscan area is moving and you have to dodge them. That one was described above.
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Old 05-09-2016, 08:59 AM   #126   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

or just make them easy to stunlock and dont place too many of them at once
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Old 05-09-2016, 09:47 AM   #127   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Also, regarding to beheaded bombers in BFE: Enhanced. It seems that they behave differently than their SS1 counterparts. Their splash radius is larger but when they die, they don't make chain reactions. Coupled with slower player movement speed, I can understand what happened.
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Old 05-09-2016, 11:02 AM   #128   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Originally when I made them, they exploded like kamikazes, because there was no other way to make them. Later, Ryason updated them so they drop a bomb when dead which explodes a second later. It's not related to player movement speed or anything, just engine limitations of the time when they were created for the resource pack/SS3 Extended.
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Old 05-09-2016, 02:08 PM   #129   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

It's a wonder how much subtle differences can matter.
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:38 PM   #130   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Quote:
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AntonioR's opinion
You'll get your answer, Just need some time, because it requires some digging in old threads.
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Old 05-29-2016, 08:00 AM   #131   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

It's missing customizable weapons!
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Old 05-29-2016, 08:06 AM   #132   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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It's missing customizable weapons!
No. Why you need them in a Old School Shooter like SS?
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Old 05-31-2016, 11:36 PM   #133   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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No. Why you need them in a Old School Shooter like SS?
I didn't realize Old School meant we have to play the same game over and over.

Although the customizations should only change functionality. As in, nothing you can get that makes it straight up more powerful.
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Old 06-01-2016, 02:05 AM   #134   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Why not make it more powerful?
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Old 06-01-2016, 03:11 AM   #135   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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Why not make it more powerful?
Like minigun that fires Serious Bombs?
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Old 06-01-2016, 03:34 AM   #136   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

You can make a weapon powerful by picking up a new, more powerful weapon. What a twist, huh?

Anyway, though, I'd prefer such customizations that feel like simple old-school mechanic, that doesn't change the weapon stats significantly from shitty weapon to super-duper cannon of doom and destruction, also isn't obligatory, but totally optional and so subtle that it doesn't require a player to spend annoyingly long time in customization menus. Alt.fire mode can be one these things as long as you have to look for special ammo (and it's enough of it) on the levels.
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Old 06-01-2016, 04:27 AM   #137   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Singleplayer games can (and should) be played however the player wants to play them. Doesn't matter what difficulty, what mod, what kind of cheats. So if there's a system in place that could give the player upgraded and more powerful weapons if they choose to do so, then why the hell not.

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I didn't realize Old School meant we have to play the same game over and over.
Quoted for absolute truth.
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Old 06-01-2016, 04:38 AM   #138   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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Originally Posted by FreekNik View Post
You can make a weapon powerful by picking up a new, more powerful weapon. What a twist, huh?
I really loved Quake 4's upgrading system. Halfway through the game your shotgun is pretty underpowered, then you meet an NPC engineer who says something like: "Oh hey Kane, I see your shotgun is still pump action. Here, have a clip system." And then bam, your shotgun is valid again. You don't have to collect shit, wrestle through a menu or buy an upgrade: The game just hands it to you when the time is right. Serious Sam gets a new sledgehammer 3/4 through the game, but the steel sledge doesn't actually perform differently, does it? That's a missed opportunity.
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Old 06-01-2016, 04:43 AM   #139   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

If I was in CroTeam, i would put a knife and a revolver in Lost Temples of Nubia. Like this the connection between BFE and FE would be making much more sense.
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Old 06-01-2016, 04:57 AM   #140   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

There's important thing in upgrade menus though: Player choice. Like okay, you get an upgrade in Quake 4 for the shotgun, sure. But what if I don't care about the shotgun, because I barely use it? That's just disappointing, I'd rather get an upgrade for the weapon I actually care about and use all the time.

Hence the upgrade systems in recent games, like in Doom. In Doom, I could choose between two main attachments for a weapon, trying both. Then after deciding which I like more, I can invest in that choice by making that better, since that's the one I like to use. It's so much better and satisfying to do it like that.

And that kinda plays into the "why upgrades, if you can have more weapons" attitude. I already use X weapon and Y weapon. Now I get a XX weapon, which is just a stronger version of X weapon, except it looks ugly and its sound make my ears bleed. Thanks, but no thanks, I use X weapon instead, even if it puts me at a disadvantage (exactly how I view the Double Shotgun in SS games, but mostly because of how sluggish it is). Not to mention, a lot of guns can easily "dilute" the "personality" of the other guns, and soon enough, most of them could easily feel the same. Or most go unused.

TotalBiscuit recently explained the many benefits of Upgrade systems in his Doom video: https://youtu.be/GTL8YMQHc4k?t=12m15s .
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Old 06-01-2016, 05:14 AM   #141   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

I thinkt that Painkiller still have the coolest arsenal in matters of weapon design, weapon balance, etc...
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Old 06-01-2016, 07:06 AM   #142   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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There's important thing in upgrade menus though: Player choice. Like okay, you get an upgrade in Quake 4 for the shotgun, sure. But what if I don't care about the shotgun, because I barely use it? That's just disappointing, I'd rather get an upgrade for the weapon I actually care about and use all the time.
Every weapon gets upgraded when it starts getting underpowered in Quake 4, I just gave the shotgun as an example. There's no need for upgrade menus or choice because every weapon is made relevant again later in the game. This method also prevents the hassle of balancing the upgrades, because if you focus your upgrades on one weapon from the start it will likely become overpowered.
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Old 06-01-2016, 07:38 AM   #143   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

It is your choice if it becomes overpowered or not. It doesn't really matter, since you're playing a Singleplayer game, and if its your wish to be overpowered, you can do so.

Also, I don't exactly remember all weapons receiving an upgrade in Quake 4, and again, it would have been better if you had your own choice in the order you get those upgrades.
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Old 06-01-2016, 09:11 AM   #144   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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Originally Posted by Artificial View Post
I didn't realize Old School meant we have to play the same game over and over.
Soul and Identity of a game series, some people would asked now.

And i'm not saying you have to play the same game over and over.

For Example Singleplayer of Borderlands 1 feels totally random, even if the idea to mix Diablo & FPS at paper sounds great.

Sams character and the Background of Universe and Mentals Background should be extended.
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Old 06-01-2016, 10:52 AM   #145   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

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Why not make it more powerful?
Because then it's just an arms race of a sort. You'll only use your most powerful weapon and that gets boring. It also turns into a bit of an RPG. "You can't have the best most relevant version of this gun until you've done this and this and this or waded through this much crap, boring or not."

When I get the gun, I want it to be as powerful and as viable as every one of my other weapons. (OK, with one or two weapon exceptions allowed such as the BFG in Doom, which is balanced out by limited ammo.) By obtaining upgrades that just change functionality and not power, you're giving the player even more options without making the other guns feel less viable.
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Old 06-01-2016, 11:05 AM   #146   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

What is power and what is functionality, though? Can one be the same as the other? There's a lot to think about when it comes to such a feature. So even this can prove its legitimacy, it's not something to be just tacked on.

If you want your guns to be as powerful and viable as every one of your other weapons, then the weapons have to be designed such a way. The weapons in SS are not designed that way at all. And again, it is also about player choice. Using your most powerful weapon might be boring to you, but might not be for others. And since it is a Singleplayer game, it is the player's choice if they want to use their most powerful weapon or not.
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Old 06-01-2016, 11:50 AM   #147   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solais View Post
What is power and what is functionality, though? Can one be the same as the other? There's a lot to think about when it comes to such a feature. So even this can prove its legitimacy, it's not something to be just tacked on.

If you want your guns to be as powerful and viable as every one of your other weapons, then the weapons have to be designed such a way. The weapons in SS are not designed that way at all. And again, it is also about player choice. Using your most powerful weapon might be boring to you, but might not be for others.
I guarantee you, they will get tired of that. Maybe not now but later. Because repetition becomes the death of magic. Bill Watterson said that and I quite agree. Now in a game like this, repetition of some kind is unavoidable and that's fine. But we really should try to minimize it as much as possible, not encourage players to use the same thing over and over and over.

In any case, yes, the SS weapons were not originally as such. However, I notice that my weapon rebalancing for BFE was reasonably liked, all things considered. Furthermore though, I did say that weapons should all be equally viable WITH A FEW EXCEPTIONS, The BFG and the Cannon being some of them.

And functionality means, say, getting an attachment for the rocket launcher that shoots a bunch of smaller rockets at once instead of a slow much more powerful one. The overall power isn't exactly changed. Just its functionality.
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Old 06-01-2016, 12:03 PM   #148   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

I played games with cheats for like 6-7 years. If it took me that long to get tired of being the most overpowered, then for others, it might be similar, if I go with your point of view that you are "guaranteeing" here.

Mind you, I don't disagree with your version of upgrades, I'm just playing a Devil's Advocate about this whole view of "this and that SHOULD be like this even though it's a Singleplayer game". If it was a competitive multiplayer game where there have to be balance and whatnot, then it would be a much simpler discussion. But it's not, and in Singleplayer, you can choose how to play. A "this is how you should play the game" view is what led to games having checkpoints instead of regular saves, as well.
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Old 06-01-2016, 03:29 PM   #149   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

The title of this thread is asking a question and it's answer is one word: evolution. Croteam needs to evolve the series. It needs to take bold and daring risks. It needs to be brought to the next level.

So let us give it regenerating health, a two weapon limit, multiplayer load outs, quick-time events, an overbearing tutorial and a patriotic story glorifying the U.S. military and make it extremely linear and scripted. Also, make sure the campaign is no more than 5 hours long and don't forget on-disc DLC.
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Old 06-01-2016, 07:21 PM   #150   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Do you think Serious Sam is missing something?

The new DOOM brought Doom into a pretty modern era... but they just made it work really, really well. The new Doom is the most fun I've had with a shooter in a long time. The only downside is that it relies too much on the gorenest mechanic.. where there are few enemies in the map until you trigger an event that spawns em for a fight. It's just used -too- much. But the spawn system is good in that, every time you play a level, the enemies may be moved around a bit. At least it seemed that way for me.
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