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Serious Sam 2 Discuss anything and everything about Serious Sam 2, the official sequel to SS:FE and SS:SE.

View Poll Results: SEd2 only for advanced users?
No! SEd2 is easy and self-explained 2 10.53%
SEd2 needs initial training 13 68.42%
SEd2 is nothing for beginners 4 21.05%
SEd2 is only for professional users 0 0%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-29-2007, 07:34 AM   #1   Add To Ignore List  
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Default SEd2 only for advanced users?

I have heard many opinions about SEd2, that the editor is too hard to understand and such. The easiest thing would be to discuss WHAT is hard to understand in SEd2. This has caught my interest, so I made that thread here.

I voted for the second, because you need some induction to get into SEd2, but then if you got it, you only need to improve your skills and everything goes from itself after a while
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Old 05-29-2007, 07:55 AM   #2   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

Uh K_C, you do realize that some of us (including me) have absolutely NO experience with Sed2 right?
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Old 05-29-2007, 07:57 AM   #3   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

I agree with Knight_Christian
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:22 AM   #4   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Doom Man View Post
Uh K_C, you do realize that some of us (including me) have absolutely NO experience with Sed2 right?
That's what the second choice it for. No experience? Practice and use the tuts and soon you will have

I'd go with the second choice too, you won't know what to do at first but as with all game editors, practice and learning will help you get better at it

Nobody better choose the fourth choice and say "SED2 is too hard because I can't get it working in a day *Moan, Whinge, Moan*"
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:26 AM   #5   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

@ DDM: Yes, of course, the first choice is only for "cracks", people who see it first and then learn everything from one second to another
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:34 AM   #6   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

I voted for the third choice cause at my age, it would take at least 3-5 months to learn the simple things of Sed2.
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:43 AM   #7   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

No it won't.
My brother is 13 and he learned to use SEd2 instantly when I showed him how
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Old 05-29-2007, 09:37 AM   #8   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

Age has nothing to do with this. You can probably tell a 10-year-old how to use SED2, if you got the patience.
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Old 05-29-2007, 09:41 AM   #9   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

as much as complex sed2 seems to be, I don't think it's that hard to learn it. BUT, like with Maya, you simply takes some time to learn all that.
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Old 05-29-2007, 09:47 AM   #10   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

Hm.. yes, but who agrees that the tutorials shipped with the editor are crap?
The only good tuts are the macro tuts from spoon,, the rest is too unsorted and weird to read.
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Old 05-29-2007, 09:48 AM   #11   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wytas View Post
No it won't.
My brother is 13 and he learned to use SEd2 instantly when I showed him how
*hangs head in shame*

I need to learn for 6 months before getting the hang of it. :/
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Old 05-29-2007, 09:49 AM   #12   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

eh, they aren't really THAT bad KC. But they could be better yes.
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Old 05-29-2007, 09:50 AM   #13   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

Its probably because Im more fluent at English, which in turn is because Dutch resembles English much more than Croatian does. I still dont think CTs tutorials were hard to understand though. Oh, and posting via VNC sucks
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Old 05-29-2007, 10:07 AM   #14   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

No I mean:

CT's tutorials:

Too much text for simple actions
Too less text for important actions
Too less pictures, some of them are cryptical (say nothing)
Sentences aren't well structurized
I gave up after reading them through for 6 times

Don't take this personally, but it seems, that CT was even rushed to release that tuts.

Spoon's tutorials:

Much text, but understandable
For each crap one picture, which is very very good
Explanations are great worked out
Text is good structurized

In your macro tutorial, I got the sense of macros right from the first reading.
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Old 05-29-2007, 10:13 AM   #15   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight_Christian View Post
Don't take this personally, but it seems, that CT was even rushed to release that tuts.
Be happy that tutorials came out at all
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Old 05-29-2007, 10:28 AM   #16   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

There is to much differences betwen ss1's editor and ss'2 editor!
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Old 05-29-2007, 10:50 AM   #17   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight_Christian View Post
I have heard many opinions about SEd2, that the editor is too hard to understand and such. The easiest thing would be to discuss WHAT is hard to understand in SEd2. This has caught my interest, so I made that thread here.

I voted for the second, because you need some induction to get into SEd2, but then if you got it, you only need to improve your skills and everything goes from itself after a while
Option 2 and 3 are pretty much the same. Just to point that out.

It'd be amusing if some SEd2 fanboy voted for option 1.
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Old 05-29-2007, 11:15 AM   #18   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiendan View Post
Option 2 and 3 are pretty much the same. Just to point that out.

It'd be amusing if some SEd2 fanboy voted for option 1.
Yes, I'm still waiting jk
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Old 05-29-2007, 11:31 AM   #19   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

Bwahahah, I chose the third option. I had no experience with SED2-style editors before and it took me half a year to fully master the editor and release somewhat "good" maps. (I mean I still haven't mastered all the features of the editor ) It could be much more user-friendly and easier for beginners, and I hope SED3 will be improved in this area at least.

It depends on the person how long it will take to learn SED2. But I doubt any newbie with zero experience could master SED2 in one month. It will take much longer. (remember that you MUST learn macro to make maps too)
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Old 05-29-2007, 12:45 PM   #20   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

Macro is what scares me, I have never tried SEd2 partly because of that.
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Old 05-29-2007, 12:48 PM   #21   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

Macro scared me too because I'd never really done much coding except on one of those black DOS style screens (Can't remember the name of the coding) at college

But now I've gotten the hang of it. Just try it Fiendan, at least if you still can't do it you can say you've tried

Edit: Here's an idea, any of the macro functions you use, stick 'em in a text document and keep it for whenever you forget one

Last edited by Deepblue; 05-29-2007 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 05-29-2007, 12:56 PM   #22   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiendan View Post
Macro is what scares me, I have never tried SEd2 partly because of that.
Lol^90, macros aren't that problem, it's more UVmaps, they sometimes do what they want

@ Deepblue: Yes, that idea is good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
It could be much more user-friendly and easier for beginners, and I hope SED3 will be improved in this area at least.
I'm afraid it doesn't is.

SEd2 + More, advanced functions = SEd3

Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
It depends on the person how long it will take to learn SED2. But I doubt any newbie with zero experience could master SED2 in one month. It will take much longer. (remember that you MUST learn macro to make maps too)
Strange, ignoring the bad tuts, I've learned most of SEd2 in 9 days (with tuts: 10 days)
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Old 05-29-2007, 01:07 PM   #23   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight_Christian View Post
Strange, ignoring the bad tuts, I've learned most of SEd2 in 9 days (with tuts: 10 days)
Define 'most of'.
Because that sentence can be translated into the word bullshit unless you have been sitting on your ass with SEd2 running for 9 days in a row.
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Old 05-29-2007, 01:26 PM   #24   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiendan View Post
Define 'most of'.
Because that sentence can be translated into the word bullshit unless you have been sitting on your ass with SEd2 running for 9 days in a row.
In the 9 days, that could be something like 20 hours plusminus.

Most of SEd2, except these little things like destruction, animation, uvmaps etc. things, which I can use now.
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Old 05-29-2007, 01:29 PM   #25   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

All those little things put together make a hefty part of the editor's features like in SEd1.
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Old 05-29-2007, 01:35 PM   #26   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

The problem is with the poor/wrong documentation and disappearing textures and crashes. Almost none of the examples work because they are just plain wrong. There is nothing worse than working on a map for a few hours just to have your textures disappear for no reason and you can't find a way to get them back.
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Old 05-29-2007, 01:36 PM   #27   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

You can blame 2k Games for rushing Croteam.
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Old 05-29-2007, 01:43 PM   #28   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisW View Post
The problem is with the poor/wrong documentation and disappearing textures and crashes. Almost none of the examples work because they are just plain wrong. There is nothing worse than working on a map for a few hours just to have your textures disappear for no reason and you can't find a way to get them back.
That was what I've said earlier in this thread, hell yes, the tutorials (except spoons) are bad. But I came along even without that crappy tutorials, I've learned everything I know from myself.
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Old 05-29-2007, 02:11 PM   #29   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

oh yes, there is that thing like wrong shortcuts and similar...
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Old 05-29-2007, 02:37 PM   #30   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: SEd2 only for advanced users?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zocky View Post
oh yes, there is that thing like wrong shortcuts and similar...
Yes, wrong shortcut. Once, Alen C told me that window maker is CTRL+ALT+W, but in fact it is ALT+W, that has me confused a bit...
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