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Old 05-22-2011, 02:40 PM   #1   Add To Ignore List  
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Post Versus as seen in Left 4 Dead.

We all know that Serious Sam 3 will bring us a great multiplayer experience, as usual.

But what if I would like to play SS somekind in... tactics way?

I wish that Serious Sam 3 could have "Versus Monsters" gamemode. It's my own imagination based on game Left 4 Dead, but you can obviously read it.

Well, this gamemode is like Clasic Coop, except this there are teams. Resistance, and Mental Forces. You can play on normal SS3 maps for singleplayer and coop...

When game starts, team Resistance is playing as usual, trying to reach the end of the level.

Secound team, Mental Forces, are trying to stop them... How? Putting monsters in their way, in RTS mode!

I know it's sounds strange, but it could be awesome. Everybody in Mental Forces have "points" what are regenerating. They are placing monsters, which cost these points. At the end of the level, teams are replacing, and game is starting over again. In the end, game shows statistics of both teams, and who's got more points, more damage done to monsters/players, who's got better time - WINS!

About Customization.

Well, you would be able to turn on/off basic Clasic Coop options like Infinite Ammo, but that will be fair, because of Team Repleace.

What could be able to customize is Winner System. You would be able to choice a basic variant what is taken for comprasion at the end of round for both teams. You would be able to chioce bettwen Time of Resistance, Damage taken to Players by Mental Forces, and normal points counter, as in Beast Hunter in SSHD.



Who's in?
Maybe if CroTeam would be soo nice to give us full SDK and tools, it could be done. What you think?
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Old 05-22-2011, 05:33 PM   #2   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Versus as seen in Left 4 Dead.

Well, your concept sounds interesting, but I am not sure how good would it fit in a SS game.
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Old 05-23-2011, 08:05 AM   #3   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Versus as seen in Left 4 Dead.

Yes that sounds awesome, though it would be hard to find good players to play as "The Mental Forces" .
I can imagine some kid placing 10000 Kamikazes 3 feet from your face, and then calling you noob.
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Old 05-23-2011, 10:10 AM   #4   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Versus as seen in Left 4 Dead.

Well, that's why handicaps and rules could exist, like "you can't place the enemy this close" or having a resource system to limit the monsters you can place.
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Old 05-23-2011, 10:36 AM   #5   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Versus as seen in Left 4 Dead.

eh, sorry, won't work. the concepts of L4D are of critical teamwork in order to be effective. That applies to either side. Rambos get taken down pretty easily. L4D has special infected which are much more powerful than the commons. Not to mention the tanks. And there are also mistakes, ie: pull a player down and make the entire team repeat a section when they rescue him. SSAM is about the opposite from all of that...
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Old 05-23-2011, 10:58 AM   #6   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Versus as seen in Left 4 Dead.

Sounds interesting, but also agree with jiminator.
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Old 05-23-2011, 11:10 AM   #7   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Versus as seen in Left 4 Dead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon99919 View Post
We all know that Serious Sam 3 will bring us a great multiplayer experience, as usual.

But what if I would like to play SS somekind in... tactics way?
Just set friendly fire - ON
Respawn credits - No Respawn
Health/Armor Stays - No
Difficulty - Serious/Mental

and try to coordinate 5-6 unknown people It's great feeling
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:09 PM   #8   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Versus as seen in Left 4 Dead.

That isn't really L4D type versus at all. In L4D versus mode, the special infected enemies are simply replaced by players. It doesn't have any of that "RTS spawning" you mentioned, apart from being able to choose where you'll spawn. And they're obviously not the same game.

Though player controlled werebulls, biomechs and kamikazes would be amusing to see...especially since people are used to the dumb AI in SS Maybe there could be a mode where the opposite team gets to play as specific enemies, but implementing some kind of player-chosen monster spawning system would require a lot of work and it could probably be exploited somehow.
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Old 05-23-2011, 01:40 PM   #9   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Versus as seen in Left 4 Dead.

I actually think the enemies in SS would work great for a RTS versus mode like this. Plus it lends itself well to the balance of the base game - one or more regular first person players versus one (or more?) RTS players who have the ability to spawn in hundreds of monsters. It sounds great to me.

On a possibly related note, back before the forums went down, there was a post where Breedlove said something like "Prepare to join Mental's horde." That may or may not mean anything, but I half way interpreted it as a hint to a L4D versus style game mode. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Last edited by viper45; 05-23-2011 at 01:43 PM.
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:07 PM   #10   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Versus as seen in Left 4 Dead.

Yeah but just spawning enemies might get boring. I think it'd be more interesting if the enemy team was allowed control of the enemies as well. Who wouldn't want to play as an enemy afterall?
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Old 05-23-2011, 06:22 PM   #11   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Versus as seen in Left 4 Dead.

Well how about you have the ability to take control of one enemy at a time? The RTS style thing sounds really nice... but just spawning enemies could get boring, but yeah, allowing the player to take control of certain enemies you have spawned. I like the idea rather well.
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Old 05-24-2011, 03:05 AM   #12   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Versus as seen in Left 4 Dead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finzy View Post
That isn't really L4D type versus at all.
Yeah, isn't but is great tactics feeling
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Old 05-24-2011, 03:46 AM   #13   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Versus as seen in Left 4 Dead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finzy View Post
Yeah but just spawning enemies might get boring. I think it'd be more interesting if the enemy team was allowed control of the enemies as well. Who wouldn't want to play as an enemy afterall?
It would be awesome to play directly as the enemies themselves, but they might have to rework the balancing. It might not be so fun playing as a werebull that can be easily killed before you even make your first charge.

Something interesting that I remember reading in an interview with Croteam is that they're adding enemies on a higher tier than your standard cannon fodder in previous SS games. The addition of those would make a L4D style versus mode more feasible, with you playing as the stronger monsters while the AI controls all the weaker ones.
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Old 05-24-2011, 04:28 PM   #14   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Versus as seen in Left 4 Dead.

I dont neccessarily think that a copy of the Versus gamemode for SS would be a good idea. The RTS Style would work great, but just randomly spawning as one enemy... only 16 players... I thoguht SS was about MASSIVE numbers of enemies and taking them down fast with your badass weapons... i dunno =P
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Old 05-24-2011, 05:23 PM   #15   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Versus as seen in Left 4 Dead.

eh, ultimately L4D VS mode is about ambush tactics with the special infected. SSAM is about massive hordes. There are a few exceptions, where you get jumped by kleers as you turn a corner, but no surprises there. The game would have to be reengineered to make anything like that work. Too late in the process for SSAM 3, which I am hoping releases within 2 months.
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Old 05-25-2011, 09:10 PM   #16   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Versus as seen in Left 4 Dead.

As for OP:
NO.

I ****ing despise L4D Versus gameplay. Cannot ****ing stand it.
SSVS would just end up being retarded because there is too much to **** with on the enemies to make them remotely formidable.

Spray n pray mfer's...
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Old 05-25-2011, 10:30 PM   #17   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Versus as seen in Left 4 Dead.

You guys should actually read his post. Yes the title says "Versus as seen in Left 4 Dead", but the game mode he describes is entirely different.

Last edited by viper45; 05-25-2011 at 10:52 PM.
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Old 05-28-2011, 11:27 AM   #18   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Versus as seen in Left 4 Dead.

I've been spending my forum down time at slashdot. lol
...
But after reading the OP it does seem like the regular Versus gameplay. At least I don't see how it differs.

enemy players control enemies based on death/time/lottery/point pool.
gunner players shoot them down.
whoever has more points at level end wins.

---
A suggestion I would make is that enemy players would control stuff more like starcraft with a bunch of enemies at each player's disposal with various limiters and timers...or something. I dunno.

I always hated versus because the enemies are damn difficult to control with their wait parameters and ambiguous fire control schemes.


My biggest objection to Versus would be the inevitability of enemy spawn camping.
If I was an enemy player this would absolutely ruin everything for me if someone had a cannon/rocketlauncher/flamer/minigun/grenadelaunch..../knife/colts whatever.
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Old 05-28-2011, 07:58 PM   #19   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Versus as seen in Left 4 Dead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AverageJoe View Post
A suggestion I would make is that enemy players would control stuff more like starcraft with a bunch of enemies at each player's disposal with various limiters and timers...or something. I dunno.
That's exactly what the OP was suggesting.
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Old 06-01-2011, 01:38 PM   #20   Add To Ignore List  
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Default Re: Versus as seen in Left 4 Dead.

yeah it took me three reads of the first post to see that ", in RTS mode".


I have been thinking it over again and the concept of opposing player controlled enemies in the classic sam gameplay might work if alot of things go really well in development.

First there is the technical articulation of just getting the job done. That could be a big nightmare.

Is the AI way better now, or will circle strafeing and bunny hopping still be enough?

Will players decide where a spawner is placed or individual enemies? Or both?

Should players even control lesser enemies placement or be like the reservation of the common infected in l4d?
And if so, what enemies should be excluded?

Would this enemy manna pool work like lives in SS2?

Should enemy players get rewarded for the death of gunners?


On thing is for certain, for something as big as this to be added now there needs to be a concrete definition of parameters.
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