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Old 01-30-2016, 09:09 AM   #1  
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Post Conspiracy theory I came up with lately...

Hi! I wanted to share my sorta conspiracy-theory that I came up with lately looking at Serious Sam 3 artbook, and based on some stuff I've seen on these forums or Serious Sam wiki... If somebody came up with that earlier, then sorry, couldn't find anything like that.

So, it is rather well known that Serious Sam 3 and Serious Sam HD were designed at once. We can tell this for example, by the fact, that First Encounter has this "SS3 default menu image". That one precisely:

https://i.gyazo.com/e3f5edfcef74804740fc76865b222b57.png

SSHD also had some resources from UMS (Unnamed Miliatry Shooter), like unused texture for AK-47 weapon, and it later turns out that actually SS3 mostly like uses a lot of stuff from that canceled game. The texture for that model was later re-designed as Assault Riffle in BFE (according for example to animation names), from the overall "modern military" enviroments. I even think that some levels were used, like that one, which reminds me second level:

https://i.gyazo.com/734ff9a3bd04eaffde2bd36460bad483.png

BFE at some point was using probably most of SSHD resources too, like enemies as we can see this in artbook where you can spot SSHD's rocketer:

https://i.gyazo.com/ab441e9308d188f686e8c8dee8876098.png

So, we know that UMS partially became SS3, and that SSHD and SS3 were being made at the same time, at some point even one game could use assets from another... Fine! But what we didn't know, was that these games could be one game at one point.

Yep, I know, it sounds kinda strange and stupid, but let me explain.

We all know Mutilator - weapon/fun factor introduced in SS3 as a piece of Sirian Technology. It is more-or-less known that at one point it had different purposes. It the artbook it is shown as something serving as a teleporting defice, that would allow us to travel between past and the future, like "gauntlet time-lock":

https://i.gyazo.com/4d14040721b6cf262efaad2781f5a627.png

The code for all this is still in game, and even scripts are sorta working. Ryason55 described it at one point on these forums.

It was even described on Serious Sam wiki:

https://i.gyazo.com/b74f70d02afa488439772ea7660ae96c.png

If it is well known that these games were being build together, maybe the whole "past" would actually take place on SSHD levels at some point? Not saying that these would be exactly levels from SSHD, but in that style, like maybe LotB levels for example. What if at one point while making that game, someone from CT was like: "Hey. We got so much assets with this old-Egypt stuff, maybe we should make the HD version of our first game? Then we can earn some moniez for finishing BFE and focus on it a bit more.". It's only an idea, but let's not forgot how Talos was created - from the idea of puzzles between fights in SS4. If Talos is another game thanks to that, who knows... Maybe SSHD is just a side effect of early Mutilator design?

Last edited by dragon99919; 01-30-2016 at 09:12 AM.
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Old 01-30-2016, 10:15 AM   #2  
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Default Re: Conspiracy theory I came up with lately...

Wow that looks awesome!
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Last edited by Scratch; 01-30-2016 at 03:36 PM. Reason: Removed entire OP in quote
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Old 01-30-2016, 06:01 PM   #3  
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Default Re: Conspiracy theory I came up with lately...

I played a console game once that let you switch between a dark and light world dimension, but in the same exact level. You would switch back and forth to unlock puzzles in each dimension that required you to do something in the other. Was pretty cool. What if Sam had to do something like that? Only jumping between different time periods.
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Old 01-30-2016, 07:22 PM   #4  
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Default Re: Conspiracy theory I came up with lately...

Either the concept was used more than I know, or that game was Metroid Prime 2.
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Old 01-30-2016, 08:15 PM   #5  
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Default Re: Conspiracy theory I came up with lately...

There was also a Portal 2 custom mission with the same premise.
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Old 01-30-2016, 09:54 PM   #6  
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Default Re: Conspiracy theory I came up with lately...

kinda funny about this history switch, before I found about this scrapped feature I had the idea of being able to switch between the real world and the fantasy world. Where in the real world you would use guns, and in the fantasy world you would use swords and other fantasy weapons, you could still use guns but they would be weaker, and finally your foes would change from the 2 worlds, where in the fantasy world you would fight their persona's if they had any.
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Old 01-31-2016, 11:34 AM   #7  
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Default Re: Conspiracy theory I came up with lately...

Was not metroid or portal.
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Old 01-31-2016, 03:48 PM   #8  
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Default Re: Conspiracy theory I came up with lately...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solais View Post
Either the concept was used more than I know, or that game was Metroid Prime 2.
The only difference with Prime 2 was that the mechanic wasn't portable like it would have been for SS3. It was all fixed locations.

It's probable that the reason it wasn't used in SS3 was because you'd probably end up inside architecture that isn't there in the timezone you're in.

Setting areas in a room or location (like some kind of touchfield entity variant) that could stop you using it if you were in that situation would work out but would be rather annoying if you're trying to use it to escape out of a sticky situation with some enemies and relocate yourself for example, constantly hitting the key while running around to find a spot you can use it.
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Old 02-02-2016, 06:48 PM   #9  
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Default Re: Conspiracy theory I came up with lately...

the time movement history switch could be reintegrated with quite easily for me, there's a class called "locator" which can be used to tell if an entity is inside it (unused class from SS2, still works!)
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Old 02-02-2016, 09:35 PM   #10  
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Default Re: Conspiracy theory I came up with lately...

Do a super simple proof of concept map with like 2 rooms and some entities that only exist in one 'time' or the other.
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Old 02-03-2016, 01:07 PM   #11  
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Default Re: Conspiracy theory I came up with lately...

How would the fights work? Would the enemies port with you too?
It could be quite cool to teleport to the future whilst behind some rubble and find yourself protected by a whole room.
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Old 02-03-2016, 01:10 PM   #12  
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Default Re: Conspiracy theory I came up with lately...

A long time ago, I actually went and sort-of reimplemented the existing Time Lock feature and made a test map. The detection is done by projecting a player-sized collision primative in the other time, and you can only warp when that isn't colliding with anything. It works... but it's a bit overzealous, as sometimes you could be standing in the middle of the room, and it mysteriously won't work... Though, it could probably be fixed by shrinking the primative a bit. I never really did anything with it because it required changes to the GlobalGameParameters, as well as the Hands model (for some quick animation I did).

The main problem I can see with the Time Lock is... how do you handle enemy encounters? It really contributes nothing to them except a way to escape on a whim. And then what, do you also have enemies around in the Past? Of note, there is actually an option in the GlobalGameParameters to disable the Time Lock ability when in combat... but that seems really arbitrary.


Edit: ninja post pls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetroid
How would the fights work? Would the enemies port with you too?
Very unlikely, considering that the game features multiplayer, and each player would be capable of warping by themselves. Maybe if enemies within a small range were taken with you it could potentially work... but then that'd bring up the matter of what happens when there isn't space for those enemies (especially bigger, boss-like monsters).

Last edited by Ryason55; 02-03-2016 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 02-04-2016, 12:33 AM   #13  
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Default Re: Conspiracy theory I came up with lately...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryason55 View Post
A long time ago, I actually went and sort-of reimplemented the existing Time Lock feature and made a test map. The detection is done by projecting a player-sized collision primative in the other time, and you can only warp when that isn't colliding with anything. It works... but it's a bit overzealous, as sometimes you could be standing in the middle of the room, and it mysteriously won't work... Though, it could probably be fixed by shrinking the primative a bit. I never really did anything with it because it required changes to the GlobalGameParameters, as well as the Hands model (for some quick animation I did).

The main problem I can see with the Time Lock is... how do you handle enemy encounters? It really contributes nothing to them except a way to escape on a whim. And then what, do you also have enemies around in the Past? Of note, there is actually an option in the GlobalGameParameters to disable the Time Lock ability when in combat... but that seems really arbitrary.


Edit: ninja post pls.


Very unlikely, considering that the game features multiplayer, and each player would be capable of warping by themselves. Maybe if enemies within a small range were taken with you it could potentially work... but then that'd bring up the matter of what happens when there isn't space for those enemies (especially bigger, boss-like monsters).
That's very interesting Ryason! I have no idea how this would handle in multiplayer, I don't even know if it would sync at all. I suppose we could find out.

Instead of detecting enemies nearby, you could detect when enemies have the player himself as a foe and prevent the teleportion, throw in a few second recharge. Try that!
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Old 02-04-2016, 12:58 AM   #14  
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Default Re: Conspiracy theory I came up with lately...

To make it harder.. have different enemies that spawn in each time period.
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Old 02-04-2016, 01:05 AM   #15  
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Default Re: Conspiracy theory I came up with lately...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Louva-Deus View Post
To make it harder.. have different enemies that spawn in each time period.
I can imagine doing that, should be fun XD

that wouldn't really be harder, it would just be more interesting XD
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